Maria (00:00.044)
Can you shifty? Not too much, obviously, because you've got that. I can move this. there we go. I think we're both in now. Yep. OK, so if that's going, if I minimize that, and this is the main one.

Maria (00:21.465)
All right, and we've already tested that.

Excellent. think we're good to go. So hello, Hugo, and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. How are you doing? Yeah, really good. No, thanks for having me. It's amazing to take part. my pleasure. I mean, we've just had what, a 20 minute conversation before this. This is going to be interesting. Stick around. So before we get into anything, could you please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Yeah. So,

My name's Hugo. I run Growl Films, which is a video production company based here in Reading. Broadly speaking, we service clients in the Reading and Berkshire area, but also all over the UK really. A mixture of small and large, which is great. We like that variation, you know, rather than just doing the same type of industries or companies would get a little bit boring. And in terms of my sort of

Very brief background. So I studied film and media many years ago now, 15 or so years ago now. And since then have done various roles from sort of junior to more senior in various other companies. And then in end of 2017 is when I started Growlfilms and moved to Reading. They kind of coincided together and haven't looked back since really.

Well, that's good. mean, so that is what that's my maths now for five to seven years. So you've been in for seven years. what do you think of Reading? What do you like about Reading, would you say? So I hadn't actually really, I couldn't remember ever going to Reading or being in Reading before moving here, other than obviously looking, you know, at the general area immediately prior to moving. It was just looking to

Maria (02:15.682)
to move this side of London really and looking at what cool places there were, came to Reading and had a coffee in a really nice coffee shop which sadly closed recently called Workspace or Workhouse in central Reading. But really loved the kind of energy of the, not city, I was about to say city, I know that's a sensitive part of that. But it's really diverse in terms of of cultures, which is really good. I grew up in Oxford myself, so similar in that respect.

It's a good size, it's got enough to do, but not too much like London. I'm not really a sort of capital city, know, massive city guy. And yeah, so I'd say it's got a good mix of business as well, which for me as a small business owner is important as well. You want that kind of camaraderie with the business community and different industries. So yeah, mixture. Yeah, fascinating.

We've obviously mentioned small businesses there. So what are the biggest challenges that small businesses face, you say, creating and distributing their content? Yeah. So I would say thinking about this question, it's a good one because in some ways it's got easier in terms of the distribution. You know, used to be

Broadly just TV, I guess, or cinema or big screen stuff, which would only be really the biggest companies, the biggest budgets. But now because of the internet, broadly speaking, so even YouTube and just websites, it just became a bit more democratic really, the whole process, certainly on the distribution side. And then with social media now, with your phone, can do anything. So in some ways,

There are less challenges. However, this kind of a double -edged sword because there's so much content out there now is actually the difference is not about can you distribute, it's how you distribute or how can you distribute to a place you'll get seen, you'll meet the right customers. so I think, yeah, that kind of knowing what might work for your key audience or your ideal customers is now the, I would say that

Maria (04:35.672)
rather than that distribution, if that makes sense. Interesting, yeah. So the overcoming those, the challenges then is really knowing your customer. So it goes back to marketing and your ideal customer profile, I guess. Yeah, no, exactly. So that's one thing which I think marketers and video specialists can agree on is it's key to know who do you want to see this? Who are you making this for? Kudos on that. You just pushed that right at me and other marketers.

Sticking with the idea of videos then, what type of videos and strategies would you say work well for small businesses giving, you know, limitations of their time resources that they have? What would work well for them? So the boring answer I thought of was any video is good, but that's not useful to people. So I would say some of the key videos that I personally think are really effective and it depends a little bit on what your company does. So

Obviously everyone kind of has a product or a service they're selling as a company. so a kind of showcase or promo video. So if it's a product, you need to show that product, show it being used. Why is it good? Why should people use that if it's a service similar, but it might be more about, people who have used that service. So leading on to kind of testimonials and we're always really effective for almost any video. mean, if you think a Google review is essentially just a written testimonial, but getting a video testimony, I think has that.

trust element, know, somebody's gone out, someone's filmed, you've agreed to be filmed as a person, you know, so I think they garner a lot of trust. So I think testimonial is a really key. Whether you do that on your phone to start with, or if you go to a sort of more higher end element with hiring someone in to film it, make it look nice, you know, get the right questions and tease that content out. And then I'd say finally, would be a kind of maybe more for the corporate or the B2B side would be a company video.

So kind of just almost like a landing page video on your website, that might not be for a specific purpose other than just a quick overview. What do do? You know, instead of them having to click services or products, just explain, you know, what is this company? Do they need to delve more or are they in the wrong place essentially, you know, which is very useful to, to stop a lot of inbound wasted inquiries and to kind of the first filter as well. think I like that. yeah, when you, instead of getting lots of unnecessary inquiries, so you're just getting the really targeted ones. I think that's.

Maria (07:02.87)
really key. So if small companies take their use of video to a production company, if they think, okay, I want to a production company to do it, how can they determine the right production companies? Because you just go, you look at some websites, you think, I have no idea what I'm looking for. So how would you recommend they find the right production company for them? So I think first of all, call obviously is to search online or

maybe word of mouth, if you know, other business owners or other people that that you know, might have used video services, because using your kind of your own search, your own research and that word of mouth, especially if you're looking in the sort of local area, you know, there's in Reading, for example, there's a limited amount of sort of professional video companies that are sort of properly trading, you know, not not a lone videographer. So so

inevitably, if a person's source locally, they might know one or more of the companies and be able to advise, this company was good, and they did this. But I would say some key, key things to think about are, I mean, try and meet the people. you know, if you're considering grow films, you know, meet me, speak to me, see if we feel like a fit culturally, or, you know, it's hard, it's hard to put your finger on it. But you kind of, you just want to meet because

how you work when you're doing a video product is key because sometimes the projects can be certainly over weeks usually, sometimes even months or if it's a longer series of videos, it could be hopefully a multi -year relationship where you want to keep using the same people, it gets easier and better each time. So that kind of first choice, whilst not too defining, you can always change obviously, is...

you kind of if you get off to a good start, you find the right company, you're less likely to, you know, waste money, waste time, and just have a better experience overall. So I'd say, yeah, just meet them. Ask for similar work. So if you're thinking about, yeah, testimonials, as we talked about before, ask them, have you done this? What kind of you done? You know, what could you do for us? And also, obviously, on a technical point, you probably want to feel out the kind of scale and the budget. You know, if you were at

Maria (09:25.048)
a two person small business, don't find a, you know, a 10 person ad agency because their overheads will just eat the budget instantly. you know, smaller is often a bit more flexible and is a bit more better, especially when you're starting out. Just because it's a lot easier to then ramp up rather than to cut down from a much bigger company, if that makes sense. It does. I really like the point that you said about the chemistry, making sure that's right. Because actually a lot of people when

you get involved in video, you find that you point a camera at someone and instantly they sort of freeze up or act so unnaturally. So I think like you said, having that chemistry is so important. So yeah, I really like those tips. now ROI as a marketer, it's something I get asked. So how can you ensure that the ROI of the videos is actually worth it? Because obviously videos, it's time and money. how do you, how can you guarantee it's actually bringing something into the business, would you say? Yeah. So I think this is a key question and

I think possibly one of the trickiest, if not the trickiest, especially from my point of view, because I'm not from a marketing background, but we work with marketers a lot, to get an ROI, you essentially need to measure something or to be able to measure something. So the first key is, can you measure? So what is the goal of the video? know, sometimes we'll get people asking for a video, but they don't know what their goal is. So actually it's...

And great, thanks. We want to make a video for you, but we need to also work with you a little bit just to say, look, go off and think about what is the goal for your business so we can measure it. Once you know you can measure it, is it to bring more people to a website? Is it to get more people to buy a certain product? You can then look at how can you, what spend should you have, what would the ROI? I mean, so a few obvious things on videos on certain platforms, you can get views, shares, watch time, all these kinds of things, and they're great.

But depending on your goal, they might be useful, or they might just be sort of almost vanity metrics, you know, we got 1000 views. That could be good for someone very good. What could be horrific for another business? depends, you know, if you're selling a small product, you probably need a lot of volume. If you're selling a 10 ,000 pound product, 10 views, if they're gone a one sale could earn you back multiples of the video spend instantly. So

Maria (11:52.504)
That's something to think about. You can obviously then monitor that and I won't go into the weeds too much, but you you could have under a product, you could have a unique video, a unique link, so that if they watch that video, they click for that and you can kind of monitor the backend and you know, those sorts of things. But again, because we're video specialists, we, we make sure we get you ROI on your investment. But part of that also

needs you to have, have kind of a clear business goal or aim as well, we'd say. I liked the fact that you pointed out about the value true metrics. Cause I think people get things like that confused sometimes. They think, wow, this has got like a million views. It's like, well, how many sales has it generated? yeah, that I think that's a key distinction to make, which is good. So can you talk about some success? I think it's good sometimes to have some examples of projects to give people ideas. So could you give people ideas of successful projects?

you've worked on and dissect them to say what went well. think that will help people to understand what to do for a good video. Yeah. So this was a really good process for me actually is think about which of our projects are more successful than others. Obviously, broadly speaking, I'd say all our projects are successful to a point. There are certainly obviously standout ones and one that we haven't done any videos then for a few years, but we had about a three or four year period where we

did a series of videos, again, hiked back to ongoing relationship where kind of just gets more effective and better is, in short, they were a wholesaler of toys, but broadly, some high ticket kind of those ride on like, you know, branded cars, you know, like an Audi or whatever that a five year old can can go on. And so those those are not cheap, I can't remember the exact ticket price, but you know, let's say a couple hundred quid upwards, some of them depending on the on the size. And

Their key thing actually was, you know, these things they import and then they sell them online, but they don't create the product. They don't create the instructions. So they had a lot of customer service issues. People were saying, how do you put it together? That the battery is not working or this thing's not pairing, you know, the remote or whatever. And, know, the, the, the spend on manpower to man that for a small, relatively small setup was, was a lot for them. So the initial goal was.

Maria (14:19.992)
reduce staff time needed to spend on this annoying issue of answering these things. So we created a series of videos, you five to 10 minutes broadly each, a person assembling their product, you know, and they had multiple products, multiple videos. And so the goal was to reduce that time we were told, you know, explicitly by the person who engages who is a CEO of the company, it reduces time massively, they didn't give us exact figures, you know, in terms of spend, but I know that the videos didn't

didn't cost the earth, they were very affordable. So they made a massive ROI in that respect. And then there's an added element of, I was just looking the other day, that actually the videos have already got in total, you know, over like 20 odd videos got three, 400 ,000 views. and this is over multiple years, you know, some of the videos were five years old, but clearly they're popular now, an argument could be made. So again, are they vanumetrious or not?

they've already bought a product might have not been from you, they might have just searched how to assemble on that. However, you're building that brand equity. It wasn't the original aims to anything else as a bonus. And, you know, if 0 .01 % of those hundreds of them goes through and buys another toy from you because they now trust you trust like and know you, then your ROI is just, you know, exponential on that series of videos, really. I think that's

That's a good element. It's sort of a good case study really on, on how it can, how it can go well and be really successful. That's fascinating. mean, I think I said nowadays thinking about how someone would go through and buy something, if someone's interested in buying a toy like that, they're probably Googling beforehand anyway, to see what other people have thought, is it worth it? So inevitably, if there are YouTube videos, you would expect them to come across something like that at some point. And if you're showing how to assemble it instantly when they think you should buy it from well,

Okay. I know there's little risk with this one because I can see how it's assembled and it looks quite easy. So who you go to go for, think. Yeah. So I think you're absolutely right. That would definitely help thinking logically about how they'd go through that journey. So now we've done successful. What about the least successful one? So what didn't go very well and why do you think it didn't go very well?

Maria (16:35.03)
I'll come on to a specific in a moment, but I think broadly thinking about ones that were less successful. Again, it's kind of come back to that sort of aim a little bit in terms of what is a video for? Was it created a little bit reactionary? You know, our competitor has a video, we need a video, but not realizing what was the competitor trying to do the same thing that you want to do or, you know, a little bit of that. And

there's obviously a slight imbalance in relationship occasionally if a new client comes, they want a video, they want to pay you as a business for a video, you might have opinions about, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? They just want it done, they want you to get it done and that sort of thing. you either turn down the work or you have to be more forceful and that sort of thing. I'd say broadly, there's that element of it sort of in the pre -production stage with say as a video, that maybe some things weren't as good as they could be.

Or it's then after the video's finished, is was it used correctly, which is obviously linked to the aim. You kind of need to know the aim, then make it, then know what you're to do with it, you know. So to use that successful one a minute ago, create the video to solve a problem, it solved that problem. It was then put on YouTube, which can just be linked to people. you don't know how to do that. Go to this link.

you know, simple aim created that where it falls down on successful projects is, usually in that first or that last part. Because the production is usually pretty smooth going because you know, we're experiencing it. We rarely meet a challenge we can't solve. And to use a, use a kind of specific on this that I'm sure a lot of people can relate to. So we were creating a project for a client. We'd done it a few videos for before kind of ad hoc.

They then wanted to kind of do a more strategic over sort of the year or best part of the year, kind of go through all their different services, their different departments, their offices in different parts of the UK. Now there's a cost in going to these places and filming. So we sort of organized a schedule that would minimize the cost. You we'd only film in each place, you know, one day, but we'd get the content for multiple videos and be really efficient. And it was all really well. However, during the process, Change Marketing Manager,

Maria (19:00.064)
not once, but twice, and also some marketing assistance. So when that kind of communication, that personnel breakdown happens, it's then, it's then hard to get that original aim mid production to then get that end goal. And I dare say some of the production then didn't happen because, you know, budgets were changed, cut, et cetera. So the original aim couldn't be fully realized. then whether they used it or not.

because by the time it got to the third one, we kind of stopped getting replies to our questions about, know, how did this go? Would you like a change on this? You know, these kinds of things. So it was all it was all good in the end, but it could have been better. So I think that's why I would say unsuccessful. But it was still successful. It was just the least, you know, it wasn't unsuccessful, But it was the least successful out of what we'd normally do.

I think that highlights massively, which is something so important that staff turnover, I think can be quite damaging for a company. think if you have consistency with staff, it takes a while to settle in and to find the ropes and to know people and to work well. So if you've got that turnover, by the time someone comes in and settles down, you've already lost months of time when you could have been developing something. So yeah, I think that's a really...

important thing to highlight. So thank you for that. Now, obviously, like you said, you've got, what do you say 15 year career so far? Something like that. Okay, let's go for 15 years. So you've got your 15 career in video editing, which I you've seen some things. What are the most important takeaways that you can share with us to give some insight and some key tips? Yeah, so I mean, there's a million and one sort of lessons on it.

very minute detail, know, of creating stuff, learning and improving. That'll be a book. But a couple, a couple of key things, think, firstly, I'd say it doesn't need to be perfect. You know, my sort of background is in the kind of technical elements. So I've, I've done cinematography on a couple of feature films in my career as well. I'm sort of in between my sort of day job and, know, with films and when you're doing a similar, you're trying to make it look really nice. know, you're tweaking the lighting, you have the time, you have

Maria (21:17.142)
you know, hopefully the budget and that sort of stuff. But, you know, not everything needs to be looked like it's crafted by Roger Deakins, who's a sort of Oscar winning UK cinematographer that I love. Not everyone might get a reference, but Google him is very good. I'll put a link in the show notes for you. You all have seen lots of his films, I'm sure. And then the other thing, so it doesn't need to be perfect. And linked to that is just start is, you know, just start doing video. I've said to even some clients, some new inquiries, you know,

maybe come through the website or wherever and I've just said to them look what have you done so far if you've and sometimes it was nothing we don't know it's up we can work with that however in some ways it's almost better if they've tried stuff on a on very low scale like with their phone or something or maybe they've got an internal person with with their own small camera or something that has a video function and almost if they've tried and it's not been as good as they wanted they kind of almost

There's a shortcut in the discussion of what we can do. We can make it look nicer. We can make it be more structured, be more targeted, you know, whatever it might be that their ones lacked. They've kind of almost taken that first step, which is a bit easier. So I'd say it doesn't need to be perfect and just start would be my two top tips really. Brilliant. wow. Okay. Didn't expect that. That's really good. So out of everything we've discussed today, do you have a...

If people just take one thing away, what's a key takeaway that you'd like to leave our listeners with? So I would say just if you're thinking about doing video for your business, just do something. So do a proactive step. either, again, just start, just do something yourself or happily, you know, reach out to a company, reach out to me and just have a discussion.

you know, I get calls of people who don't become clients, maybe they will in the future, had a call from a chap, literally a couple of days ago, he wanted to make a feature film on his life, you know, we're not a feature film company, I've worked on feature films, but we can't take something from concept to script to hire a massive studio, you know, millions of budgets, whatever. But I gave him a few pointers about, you know, how how the process should work, who to reach out, you know, producers, scriptwriter, whatever. So

Maria (23:39.83)
I was able to help them a little bit on their journey, hopefully. But it doesn't need to be a transactional relationship. I see business, especially a video business, a bit more of a long -term plan. So it's not about getting a hundred quid now. It's about, can we have a relationship ongoing and can we make great content that hopefully also enhances our clients' businesses or their aims or their goals? So I'd say just...

key take away, give me a call, get in touch, would be hopefully not too salesy a bit, but let's have a chat over a coffee. And you never know what you might garner from me. I'll learn stuff from your business as well. whether we together now or two years at time, just start the conversation really. I think that's a great, very good key takeaway to leave everyone with. And it sort of rides on something that one of other podcast guests, Mike Bostock mentioned.

He said that there's so much knowledge in reading and the people with the knowledge are normally just happy to share it and give you pointers. So it's amazing how much knowledge is out there. You just need to ask. Just go and ask someone. You'd be surprised what you can come away from the conversation with. So thank you so much for your time, Hugo. This has been enlightening and yeah, I'm definitely going to put some of those points into action. So thank you. Amazing. Thank you very much. Perfect. Finished. How'd you find it?

Yeah good, I don't know how it came across but hopefully. think you did brilliant. Hopefully alright. No I thought you did really well, everything was very succinct. It's just, yeah it's just some things are kind of, when you're, because I'm not naturally like a sort of public speaker, so mean this is alright because it's