Maria Lloyd (00:01.454)
Hello and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast which shines a light on the success stories, key learnings and insights from people and businesses based in Reading, Berkshire. I'm your host, Maria Lloyd. I've lived in Reading for 20 years and I've only recently started to appreciate what our wonderful town has to offer. Join me as I explore Reading's opportunities and lessons in more detail. Now, without further ado, let's jump in.

Okay, so hello Caroline and Liz and welcome to the My Local Mob to podcast. Thank you for going on. How are you doing? Yeah, good, thank you. We're delighted to be here. Yes, thank you for having us. you're very welcome. And we are here today in the Dewdrop Inn in Hurley. Beautiful inn in the middle of the woods. It's so pretty, isn't it? So the reason we're here is because we met the guys who run it and they used to run the Stag and Huntsman in Hambleden and we'd done a few walks out there.

and then we heard that they'd moved over here. So we were like, great, a new opportunity to come and do another walk in a certain area. So we came and wrecked this in the summer and we're very lucky today to have the most incredible weather. So yeah, we've had a beautiful walk here today. It is beautiful. It is really beautiful. We've looked out today. So before we go any further, I'll just ask you both to introduce yourselves and what we're doing today for Walkworks. My name's Liz Bradbury. I'm also a violin teacher on the side.

So I've got lots of students who come to the house and learn parley with me. so we started WalkWricks a few years ago and yeah, we've been loving what we're And I'm Carolyn Gratrix. So I am also a photographer. So I've been a professional photographer for 22 years and Liz and I know each other because we had our babies at the same time, first and second babies at the same time. Liz went on to have another one.

We very much enjoy walking and being outdoors. So in COVID times, we were meeting up for walks that we were allowed to do, but we'd always try and do a different route, wouldn't we? And then we realized that we were really loving learning the area and learning different things about the area. we then said, we should really share this with other people. Yeah, we realized that we live in a gorgeous area and we're so lucky with all the footpaths and the, well, lots of nice historic places to go and visit. There's the river as well. So we live in a really great area for walking.

Maria Lloyd (02:13.262)
And we just thought between the two of us, we probably haven't covered half of it. There's a lot more to find. And we also thought, well, if we don't know much about all these paths and we're trying to find them, then surely there'll be other people out there that don't know about them at all. So we'd like to share the love. It's a brilliant opportunity. And I said, I know you've done some great walks. So you've been for a few years now. So you said about living in a wonderful place, which it is. Totally agree with you. And that's Reading and the surrounding area. So what do you like about it?

I just think there's so much opportunity in Reading. There's a real heart and soul of amazing people in Reading and there's an awful lot to do. So sometimes you'll hear people saying, there's nothing to do in Reading and that's absolutely not true. There's everything to do in Reading if you're prepared to go and find it. So there's a great music scene, there's a great fitness scene, there's a great art scene, like there's just something for everybody, lots of nightlife. Yeah, so I love that we're a big small town with a massive heart and lots to do and good people.

What do you like about Reading Liz? Well there is like Kamara said, there's a lot going on. You just need to be in the right mindset to go out and find it and if you are in that mindset then there's so much out there. For me personally, I love the fact that going out of my house, turning left, I'm in the middle of the beautiful countryside of South Oxfordshire and if I turn right I'm in the middle of Reading where there's equally lots of green spaces there, the waterways, the River Thames, the canal.

Lots of national trails as well, but the Ridgeway really close to us Shakespeare's Way, the Chilterns are in the middle of the Chilterns area of outstanding natural beauty. So yeah, it's a cracking place. Love it. It's brilliant. Now, as you said, the walking groups that you've done, you've been doing it for quite a while now. How did it start? So we've been going walking together sort of on a weekly basis and we've been learning lots of different routes and we just said

this is our opportunity to share this with other people. Because there might be lots of people that don't enjoy deciphering apps and maps. Because we did spend a lot of time walking around with apps in our hands. We do use different apps to learn our walks. And that we also thought as well that from a safety perspective, there might be a lot of people out there that don't have someone to walk with, wouldn't enjoy walking in the woods on their own from a safety perspective. So Liz was actually brilliant because she said, right, that's it. I've set up an event for next week and we're walking next week. I was like, hang on a minute.

Maria Lloyd (04:32.078)
We don't have a website, we don't feel ready. And she was like, no, no, no, but if we don't go now, we'll miss the trees at Christmas and they look amazing at Christmas. was December just before Christmas, wasn't it? And we had a really gorgeous route with lots of huge pine trees. And yeah, it was a gorgeous, gorgeous area. It was next to a lovely, beautiful pub who we know really well. Yeah, so I thought, seize the day, let's go for it. We had one person, I think, to come with us. And from there we thought, well, no, we need to find a better way to better routes to marketing, better way to tell people about this.

And so we set up a Facebook page and somehow people saw information about it. We just got braver about spreading the word, about talking to people about it. And it's just grown from there really from quite a nice organic rate and people talking to each other. Well, since you mentioned the Facebook page, let's jump straight into that and say, how do you promote these events? Because on the water today, we had so many people. was amazed. It's a wonderful group of people. And like said, quite a lot them have got to...

you by word of mouth, but how else apart from the Facebook page or what do you do on the Facebook page to promote the group and what you do to the right people? When we go out and do the recce, obviously because I've got my photography skills that help, so we take lots of photos and lots of little clips of videos and we think that people really enjoy knowing what's coming up, so we always give really good information on the walk is this far, it's got this many hills, here's a snippet of what it looks like, what you're going to expect and I think...

that works really well for enticing people. So Liz manages our Facebook page and I manage our Instagram page. So that goes out, doesn't it? And then we've, in time we've then developed, we've got a Walkworks WhatsApp group. It's a broadcast list, so it's not one of those groups where you get lots of messages from everyone. We can just give them information about the walks as and when they're coming up. So that works well. That's obviously word of mouth, which is brilliant. Yeah. We like to collaborate where possible with pubs and well,

It doesn't necessarily have to be a pub, anything, any local businesses. try to make sure that we tell our walkers about these lovely places. Like this is an absolute gem in the middle of the woods that some people have never been to, never heard of. we like to try and share our details with those pubs and then they can share our details as well, which is great. So that collaboration is key. Yeah, but we also advertise on LinkedIn. So Caroline manages a LinkedIn page so that we can spread our word to the businesses as well in the corporate world without getting there.

Maria Lloyd (06:55.128)
people out into the countryside. That leads on to the number point, actually, that now you've gone from not only having a group for anyone who wants to come, but you actually now extended it to target businesses. So how did you think of doing that transition and what does that transition mean for you? There must be different challenges, different service. Because we're genuinely passionate about getting everybody out in nature and just out, just out into a green space or out into fresh air. From working in offices ourselves in the past, we just thought,

Everybody's so busy these days and that culture of going to work and not leaving your desk for the entire day, that just upsets us. People need that break and there's lots of evidence out there to show that even just 20 minutes now in nature or just in a green space or just away from your screen so you get a bit of green rather than screen has such a positive effect in your afternoon. And we've had so many people say,

they come to us and they're like, I've had the worst morning. then 45 minutes later, they're smiling, they're happy. And then they feed back to us that they've had such a productive afternoon because they took the time and gave themselves that time to come out and just talk to other people or not talk to anyone. Just enjoy being outside away from their desk and their screen. The natural light is just so important for our bodies. And we're not scientists, so we can't quote anything official, but during the winter months, it's especially important to get outside at lunchtime if you can.

because typically you wake up in the dark, go to work in the dark, come home in the dark and if you don't get out during your lunch hour then you've kind of missed your window. So it's just so incredibly important to be able to take that time when you can. I feel that the transition for us into the corporate world was more an organic one really wasn't it? It was a contact who, Caroline you had didn't you, with the Business Improvement District in Reading. So we run a weekly walk in Reading on a Wednesday lunchtime for anybody who works in the

businesses, part of the Business Improvement District. And it was a concept that you had, wasn't it? so I'd seen her on a photo shoot and then just mentioned that we'd started this walking company and it was going really well and it would be a lovely thing to do with businesses in the town centre. luckily she thought it was a great idea as well and signed us up two years ago. And that then led into us thinking, well, this could be an opportunity for some of the business parks as well. So we've worked with a few of the business parks around Reading and we have a regular walk on a Tuesday at Green Park.

Maria Lloyd (09:14.998)
It's so beautiful around there and there's so many businesses here. So yeah, we feel very lucky to be sharing walk works with the business community in Reading as well. I think it's a great idea because I said mental health. think nowadays we're aware how important it is and nowadays more than ever we've become so detached from nature. We live in built environments, we go from A to B in a car. So I think what you're doing is great. So what challenges have you faced? Some people think, yeah, you just...

walk out or group people who walk around the field and go home. That's easy, anyone can sort of do that. There's nothing really to it, but I know there are quite a few challenges. What challenges have you faced? Today was a classic on the challenges, wasn't it? Because when we found the walk, it was in the summer. in the course of doing the first recce and coming back to check it again a few weeks ago, some of the permissions on the path had changed. So we thought, that's interesting. Scratching our heads trying to work out how to get around that diversion.

So that's one of the challenges. just takes a lot of time to be able to do all the recces and to find the roots, check the roots, risk assess them. So that's one of the challenges. I think another challenge as well is mindset. So as you just said in the beginning, people say, it's anyone can walk. And of course anyone can walk, but it's like anything, isn't it? Anyone could do yoga if they wanted to. But if you want to do it with someone that does it all the time, knows all the moves properly. So yeah, Liz and I put a lot.

a lot of work into finding fantastic routes and interesting places. The partnerships with all the businesses, we don't just turn up and park in their car parks, we come and meet them and we develop a relationship with them and we work out lunchtime deals with them sometimes. And those relationships take nurturing. We're first aid trained, we're mental health first aid trained, we pay for insurance. So, you know, we're reputable in that sense and we put a lot of time. Sometimes it will take us seven times, eight times going out to find a walk. So we'll think, no, that doesn't work.

So we have to go and do it again. You you literally have to go and do the whole walk again. So it's not just like we turn up and nail the walk first time every time. We can both put an awful lot of hours into that. yeah, there's a lot of work that goes into this walking. One of our unique selling points is that we only ever walk on public footpaths. So we make sure that we're not trespassing or going through land where there is cattle that doesn't want to be disturbed, et cetera, et cetera. Like Helma was saying, it's the time and...

Maria Lloyd (11:36.14)
finding that you found a route but actually you have to cross a main road and actually when you, it's just the two of you crossing a main road, that's okay. It's like when you go through a huge field of cattle it may look okay on paper but actually then going through with 20 people it's not safe and it's not ideal. One of the other challenges is there's just the two of us and so we don't have any financial backing necessarily, you know, we don't have a marketing budget, we don't have skills in the IT sector so we are

everyone, we, for a little business? We're the accountants, we're the web designers, sales, marketing, exactly. Yeah, there's a lot that we have to suddenly get up to speed within a very short space of time and that's quite exhausting. It's all these behind the scenes things that you don't see with a small business. know, people see us as, wow, that's a great business. Those two just get to go out walking all the time. There's the website. We're not web developers. There's, like Liz said, the marketing, the sales,

social media management, you know, we're not social media managers, we've had to learn to get better at that sort of stuff. So yeah, it's a lot running a small business on your own, isn't it? You're suddenly head of every department. But I guess we are lucky that at the end of the day, like every Monday morning, we go out to do a rec in, we're like, this is our office. We're so lucky to be out here doing this. But we're not afraid to ask for help as well. Some of our good friends have helped us out an incredible amount. They've given us really good sage advice about where to go next, perhaps for the business or

Just to bend that person to ask to check in with, does this look okay for a website or does this look okay for a poster even? We're not afraid to ask for help. I think that's the thing with any independent businesses in the same position, they are there for whatever the product or services that they're doing, but it's not just that they have to, like I said, do the sales, do the marketing, they need to know the platforms and each one of those could be multiple jobs and if mine doing it all yourself. So yeah, totally agree with that.

You said, obviously, you've asked people about advice and they give you advice on the future and where to go. So where do you see this going in the future? Obviously, now you are just looking into the corporates. Is it develop that or do you have like a vision in mind? So we would really love more businesses to come out and bring their teams out into the countryside. So we'd love to develop Walkworks that side of things. So I just think there's so many teams that aren't necessarily seeing the value of being outside. And sometimes that limitation is the fact that like, well, it's a walk and you're like,

Maria Lloyd (13:55.614)
or if only they knew the value in walking and talking and how deeply it connects you and how much people share when they're not having to make direct eye contact. The things that people tell us. We feel very honoured and always surprised at how much people will open up and how creative people are when they're walking. We're really passionate about wanting to share that with more businesses. So we would love to get that message out there and have teams coming out for bonding experiences with us. Plus, fact now we've got

60, over 60, 70 pubs, restaurants, event spaces that are really keen to work with us as well. So you could come and have a fantastic walk and then come to a brilliant country pub like the Dew Drop for a beautiful lunch or a dinner or say the Lodgen Brewery for a beer experience or one of the vineyards we work with. yeah, there's so much opportunity there. That's where we see Orkworks growing into in the future. Fingers crossed.

So rather than just having an hour and your lunch break, which is incredibly valuable as we've discussed, just really properly downing tools and immersing yourself for an afternoon or a whole morning with your team, we just think would give businesses most in their returns. I think it's certainly the way forward. It's a lovely idea because when you're in an office, you tend to know people in an office context and you don't know them beyond.

the job. So like you said, when you're walking, the fact that you open up, will add a totally different dynamic to the office if you suddenly find someone with the same hobby as you or that actually you get on with Sheila from whichever department. Yeah, it's about breaking down the barriers, the social barriers you don't really realise exist. So when we've seen it, haven't we, we've taken teams out and you know, the chief exec is walking alongside somebody who they wouldn't necessarily.

have much to do with during the business day because they're not in the same department or they're not at the same level and they're stopping to enjoy a view together or maybe somebody's holding the gate open for you, just those little social interactions can mean a lot. Yeah, so in the past we've worked with one of the big five cancerous firms and we worked with them on a number of initiatives. One of them was a graduate initiative, so when their graduates came in September they could come out on a walk during the afternoon.

Maria Lloyd (16:13.184)
one thing to get away from the other things that they were having to do all day, which was all inside to get outside, but also to then meet other graduates and then meet other people of different levels. The whole mentoring, peer thing. Yeah, peer to peer mentoring. The stuff that's lost perhaps due to the change in our working patterns after Covid, the team isn't always in. It's typically in business now, about 40, 50 plus who are in probably a fairly comfortable position, who have a lovely home office and don't mind working from home.

And I feel like the younger generations are missing out by their wisdom, because we go through this wisdom arc, don't we? That's our give back and that's our responsibility, I think. We've had all these years experience behind us. And I do sort of feel for the younger generation because they're missing a bit of that. So if we can bring teams out to just get them together, having those conversations out. Like I said, you share so much when you're walking and talking, it always surprises us. And the difference in, perhaps if you do, there are lots of other corporate outings that you can do, of course.

But if you're perhaps sat having a meal next to somebody, you can't as readily get up and move and speak to somebody else as when you can when you're walking, you can perhaps drop back and tie your shoelace or take a photograph and then it feels much more natural to then swap who you're talking to. On the walk today, I ended up talking to several different people just because they happened to be next to me. And you start talking to someone, then you realize, you have the same job or you know the same area. And then...

you get to talking about that. So yeah, I totally agree with you. It drops barriers and opens up to different people you'd never normally talk to in day-to-day life. So that's brilliant. Now, we didn't mention it before, but I have to say, I am in awe of the research you do for the walks because I'd go for a walk. I would even think about permissions or whether I could or couldn't be in a place. So how do you find out whether you can or cannot be on a path? Yeah, we both use reputable apps. So,

Liz uses the Ordnance Survey. That is the ultimate, isn't it? The public footpaths that type. And I use the outdoor active app. So yeah, we've got a natural sense of curiosity. So we'll find a path and then we'll just make sure that we can link it in. Because we try and make the walks on a Friday morning, roughly an hour and a half or between 5 and 8 K, that's the perfect time for a morning.

Maria Lloyd (18:22.571)
Yeah, it's not as easy as you think because you've got to find your starting point. So we go out and walk it and go, well, that's too long because that's ended up being nine and a half K and we don't have enough time for that. Or quite often we'll get to a point right near the end of the walk and then there'll be a style that you definitely can't take your walkers over because it's just too rickety. Or sometimes if there's styles on private property, they really don't want to help you get over that style. So we've seen occasions where styles are far too wide open and you think, well, hang on, isn't...

That's on public land. So it does happen. But also the permissive path is quite a grey area because while it's not such a public footpath, you have right of way if you've got permission from the landowner and the landowner essentially gives the permission but can take it away at any point. So that's why it's so important that we have to go and recce and check beforehand. We don't leave it a month and then think it's okay. We do go a few days before to make sure that the access is still there or a tree hasn't fallen over in the meanwhile.

in this country, you have to be careful don't you with the weather and lots of rain plus lots of wind equals trees falling over. Yeah, there was a particular walk we did in Sullam about a year ago wasn't it and it just rained the entire week before so we checked it every day that week before the Friday because we had such a steep downhill we just thought we can't take a chance of someone slipping and as it was we were okay on that occasion to carry on weren't we.

But we had one recently where we knew the gradient was so steep and it had rained so much and then high winds were coming up that we did make a call on that one to just, we're not going to do this one today because we can't guarantee everyone's safety. So we're are very few that we've to cancel, but we do cancel based on the safety. Yeah. So the other one is if there's thunder or lightning, forecast. And I think it goes to show that walking is not as simple as, yes, just go out for a walk. It's when you have other people along, you're responsible for their safety. So like you said,

risk assessments, health and safety, first aid training. There is more than people think, as with any business, think, once you get behind the scenes. Both Caroline and I have got families who are king walkers as well, haven't we? So we tend to go out walking a lot at the weekend. I mean, I don't actually know what other people do at weekends. We just walk. So yeah, we independently find lots of routes, don't we? And then we share them together, which is joy because that's what we love to do.

Maria Lloyd (20:41.12)
Another thing to mention with the walking is, and it's a question that comes up a lot, do we take dogs? Now we both have dogs. We are huge dog fans, but we can't take dogs. So for example, on our walk today, we crossed fields of sheep, many fields of sheep. We crossed fields of horses and we didn't encounter any cattle today, but generally we do. You just can't do that with lots of dogs because if a horse takes an exception to a dog, then you you could be in all sorts of trouble.

you know, put the walkers... The horses were ironing us up today and we didn't have any dogs. The horses were ironing us up today. But yeah, so our insurance company won't cover us for dogs. And so we say, look, it's once every other week, it's just see it as your one liberating dog walk of, you know, of the week. And actually it's quite nice to walk without your dog. Being, you know, given that we walk our dogs twice a day anyway. It's a dog holiday, isn't it? It's a dog holiday, yeah. Because you can...

If a dog's there, as soon as you start chatting to someone, the dog will do something and you'll be like, so you're constantly interrupted. So just to put it out there, we love dogs. We get very excited when we hear that there's a new pub opened or a pub's changed hands, or if we find out about a new independent bakery or anything like that, that is a new draw. So that's another way that we find new routes because we think, fantastic. We've always wanted to go to this particular place, but...

we haven't been able to park there or whatever the reason. And then that's another motivation for going and finding a route. It's also really nice to know that you're supporting the local economy. we've taken, like every time we go to a pub like this one, at least five people said to me today, I'm definitely coming back here with my husband because the menu looks amazing. Like they did us incredible soup today. But we know because they tell us our walkers will more often than not go back to that pub. So.

you know, it's lovely to be able to introduce people to these gems in our countryside that, because I think we're all a bit guilty of going to the places we know and we're comfortable with and all of a sudden you'll find something like this slightly off the beaten path. And it's a lovely one to share with friends from out of town as well and family or whoever's coming to stay. It is lovely. So like you said, you've been given some great advice by many people who've been kind enough to help you. Do you have any advice for other independent business owners who may be in the same position they like?

Maria Lloyd (23:00.984)
a certain product or service and they're not quite sure how to start a business or what to do with the business. What are your suggestions? I mean, for me, I always think collaboration is key. So I think particularly in Reading as well, there's an unbelievably supportive community, particularly in the independent business arena. So I think the more giving you are, the more comes back to you in spades. So we always try and shout out and recommend lots of businesses. And yeah, to me, that would be the number one.

the marketing and sales and all that is really important. But I think if you can show that you're very willing to support other businesses, then that's going to come back to you. That network just spreads naturally, doesn't it? We've always said to ourselves that we keep doing this while we enjoy doing it. And when we started doing it, we almost didn't get off the ground even because the insurance was a frightening hurdle. And we thought, crikey, you can't do anything without insurance. What other barriers are we going to come across?

Having the two of us together to bounce off has been really, really good. We've been really solid friends from the start and we still are, I hope. But we do check in with each other quite regularly and say, are you still happy doing this? Is this still what you want to do? we, yes, it is. Yes, yeah. And so that's really key. You've got to enjoy what you do. And we are very lucky. We realised that that's where we are.

So we're going to continue to do things that make us happy. And the Friday morning walks make us incredibly happy. Seeing people benefit from being outside in nature, whether it's a team, a corporate or just one person, just really gives us a real buzz to keep us going. We've got an exciting walking holiday coming up next year to Slovakia. We're taking people out there for a walking holiday. And that's a new thing. We'll see how that goes. But I'm sure we're going to love that. We really enjoyed doing our away days, which are like retreat days.

walking days out in the country. We've really enjoyed doing those. So there's more of those to come as well. There are so many aspects to what you do for WorkWorks. So if anyone is interested in maybe going for a walk with you or just seeing what you do, where would you like to send them? What would you like them to learn? So we are on Instagram. Our handle is walk.works on Instagram and on Facebook we're at walkworks. And we do have a website, but that's quite geared towards the corporate team side of things.

Maria Lloyd (25:17.964)
And then once you've come along and met us, if you want to, you can be added to our WhatsApp group and it's a broadcast list so you don't get inundated with messages. It's literally details of what's coming up. So yeah, that's how you can find us. Brilliant. And is there any takeaways or highlights you'd to leave our listeners with? Just walking is the magic. Like we say it all the time, but walking and talking is just magical. Like we...

thought that we, you know, we spend a lot of time learning the routes, building the relationships and learning as much as we can about the local area. We've learned so much more from our walkers than they have us, because generally people will come from roughly around this area. And I love the collaborative aspect of it, that like how much people want to share with us. We've also had people say that they were feeling a bit lost and since they found Walkworks, they just feel so much happier. We've had

best friends who've met on Walkworks, become best friends, gone off to do walking holidays together. We've got our first couple. Who met on Walkworks. So honestly, magical things do happen when you're walking and talking. Absolutely. It was World Mental Health Day yesterday and the connections between good mental health and being out in nature and connecting with nature, being present in nature are huge. Well, for us, just being outside makes us smile and makes us happy.

whether it's raining, whether it's sunny, we always feel better when we get back after a walk. Yeah. Totally agree with you. Thank you so much for putting on the podcast today. Thank you for the walk this morning. I mean, it was amazing. You clearly knew exactly what you're doing and for the rest of us just following you going around, it was a beautiful walk on a beautiful day. And do drop in as well. The food, as you said, was incredible. So highly recommend anyone come and skip a. Highly recommend. Thank you very much for having us. Thank you.