Speaker 2 (00:00.406)
Hi, I'm Maria, host of the My Local Marketer podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking with Tessa, a yoga teacher based in Capuchin who also helps put girls and women in a number of ways, including talking circles. We'll also discuss Tessa's recent book, Circle Holding. Please do share this episode with someone who you think may be interested. Now, without further ado, let's jump in.

Speaker 2 (00:25.282)
Hello Tessa and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. Thank you for coming on. How are you?

I'm very well today, thank you. Thank you for having me.

my pleasure. And you look lovely today, by the way, in your yoga outfits. You've just done a class, haven't you?

Yes, I've come from mom-baby yoga, the youngest with seven weeks and going up to nine months today.

Such a cute class.

Speaker 1 (00:46.008)
The thing I really love about it is the community that happens with the mums, the mums supporting each other.

Well, that leads nicely into could you please introduce yourself and Tessa Vanuti-Sanderson, your business.

Yeah, so I'm a yoga teacher and I train other yoga teachers and over the years added all sorts of things in like being a menstrual cycle educator. I'm a circle facilitator, which I think we're going to talk about more later, and an author of a number of books now.

You haven't always been in Reading, have you? You moved here recently. So what do you like about Reading?

I really feel like I've put down roots in Reading. I've been here now actually nearly 15 years and I think it's the multicultural vibe that's here. I'm married to an Italian, so he appreciates being in a mixed society. I think we've got amazing facilities. I love the Thames Lido and the Nirvana and I've really created a community here which is so supportive.

Speaker 1 (01:53.664)
And to me, that's everything.

I think that's key, isn't it? It's taken you 15 years, but like I said, you've worked hard on creating that community. You've actually got to go out there, find people, draw them to you. So it does take time, but it's worth it.

Yeah, because before that I lived in Southampton, Bristol. I did my university degree in London, originally moved around a lot. And this is the place where I've stayed the longest and don't see myself moving anytime soon.

You mentioned your degree there. You said you were in London. Now, obviously you've done postgraduate studies as well and your background overall is fascinating. So could you go into that a little bit more?

So when I started at university, I was studying geography and social anthropology. I've always been very interested in what makes people tick, why they do the things that they do, how are they moving around the world. So after university, I went into a research job and then continued that with a master's, still interested in people. And that led onto a PhD, which was...

Speaker 1 (02:58.518)
In the end, medical sociology. So I was based in a rheumatology department in Bristol, and it was very much about people's priorities when they have a long-term condition, what normality looks like when you're living with a long-term condition, what well-being means. So it was a great position. did postdoctoral research as well. Very specific study sometimes with say Punjabi women who had rheumatoid arthritis looking at how

cultural background affects how you perceive your long-term condition. And then along came children. And after the second one, that's when I sort of really shifted and moved towards the job that I have now with my own business.

Now, how long ago was that? it 15 years ago?

My second is about to turn 12, so it's 12 years ago.

12 years ago. So over the last 12 years, I know as we discussed before we started, your current business, that's actually developed quite a lot, hasn't it? So could you give us a bit more on how it's developed over time?

Speaker 1 (04:00.578)
Yeah, I mean, all the time I was doing my PhD, I was also teaching yoga. That's been a thread that's run throughout. So I actually came across yoga when I was at university doing my first degree and I got into it through meditation. I was always doing at least one class all the time that I was working in research. And when I finished my second maternity leave, it became quite tricky to think how I was going to be able to continue that without a lot of traveling around the country.

And I wanted to be here for my two daughters. So I thought I'm going to spend a lot more time on the yoga and running those classes. And what's really changed, I think, particularly through the pandemic is that rather than just being in person and very much about being in the local community, it shifted to doing training for other teachers online. They can be all over the world. And I just, I enjoyed that so much to add another string

my bow because I think one thing that the pandemic taught us is that to have different elements to your business is very helpful when something big like that can throw everything up in the air. that's where, you know, having not only the yoga, but the menstrual education side of things, having my writing means that I've got lots of different elements that keeps it interesting, but also I think helps the business be sustainable actually.

What I really like is, like you said before, there is this thread of being interested in people that goes all the way through right from your early studies, right through to the yoga and then how your business has developed. So even though when you're in the moment, it's quite hard to see. I think if you just stand back and take a look at everything overall, sometimes that thread is, it really becomes apparent. think you've always been very conscious of that thread, haven't you?

Yeah, because I've taught pregnancy yoga for a long time. It must be about 18 years. And then I started adding in these other elements like supporting girls through puberty, the celebration days for girls where they come along with their mums and learn about how their bodies will change. And then more recently around perimenopause, adding in a circle where people can come and share their experiences about that journey. And the thread has been these rites of passage. So key.

Speaker 1 (06:22.954)
moments in somebody's life where big things are happening, not only on a physical level, but emotionally. And I think that's what links it together and has fed into the books as well. Wherever I felt that there's been a gap, where I've been looking for a particular book to support the people coming to my events, and I've not been able to find it, I've thought, well, maybe I'm that person to fill the gap.

You mentioned circles there and obviously books as well. So one of the books, you've written many books, I know, but one of the books you've written, if you can see the video, you can see that I'm holding up circle holding, a practical guide to facilitating talking circles. So could you just go into this book a bit more? How did it come about? What did you enjoy doing about it?

Well, I've run a women's circle for 10 years last September, and sometimes people have no idea what a circle is, but it's a wonderful space where you have an opportunity to share your experiences, share how you're feeling. And the beauty of it is that the facilitator will explain how the communication is going to work. Because a lot of time we might go for a...

tea with a friend or meet somebody in some kind of encounter. And we think we know the rules, but then sometimes it turns out we're not completely on the same page. We've probably all had that experience where somebody says, how are you? And then they don't listen to your answer. Whereas in a circle, there are guidelines at the beginning where somebody will say, you know, we'll talk one at a time.

what's said in the space stays in the space, it's confidential, we're going to talk respectfully and all sorts of other guidelines to help you feel you know how it's going to work and that it's feels safe to share something that you might not normally share in an everyday encounter. And so the book came about because I was as a result of the pandemic running courses online with a colleague and we tended to run them in this

Speaker 1 (08:24.136)
circle-like way where everybody has chance to speak. And she said to me one day, what do you reckon? Maybe we should put all of this into a book so somebody can step-by-step follow it and maybe have something in their living room, or perhaps they're a carer and they want to set up a support group for other carers, or perhaps they're a new mum and they feel isolated and they can get to a group of other mums together.

rather than the sort of superficial level of chatting, really feel like you can share from the heart. And I think that's what's really key to breaking down isolation and building that really meaningful connection with other people.

I think it's definitely a very called for book. It helps with a definite need, I think. So well done on putting it together. This only came out last year, didn't it? 2024. So what has the launch been like for you? How has your book launch looked like? Have you been trying to promote it?

Yeah, I really enjoyed the experience. It came out in October and we had been planning since January how we were going to lead up to the launch and what would happen afterwards. So one of the things that we decided to do is launch the Circle Holding podcast. And it's a mixture of having guests who we interview who are Circle facilitators as well for all sorts of different groups, people who run Men's Circles.

grief circles, all sorts of things to show how it's such a useful tool for all sorts of different demographics, whatever your sort of topic of interest. And then we also do little shorter episodes, which is Julia and I talking together, unpacking, like what is a circle? People might not have heard what is it, you know, what a circle is. It might call it a support group. It could be a listening circle, different names depending on kind of what

Speaker 1 (10:23.394)
your demographic would respond to.

So do you have any plans for promoting it for the rest of this year now or is it just, it's out there, it's doing its own thing?

Well, we had two in-person book launches, so the lovely Four Bears with Alex, and then also in London at a bookshop local to Julia. And that was lovely to see people. And my favourite thing in the whole world is to sign a book for somebody, write a personal message in it. So it may well be that we have another book launch in person, but it's one of those things where it's an ongoing process. I think because it's non-fiction, the publisher was very much of the mind that we're in it for the long haul.

An individual might buy it, but particularly we're hoping that people who run courses will put it on their reading list. So perhaps they're training people to be a coach. How can you move one-to-one coaching into group coaching? Or with breathwork, you might teach a whole group of breathwork teachers, but how can they make sure that the space they're creating, the sharing that happens after you've done a practice together, feels comfortable and held?

So there's all sorts of applications for it. And I think we're sort of coming towards the end of the second series of the podcast and we've got no intention of stopping. There's just so many people doing fantastic work out there in the world that we are very keen to interview.

Speaker 2 (11:46.68)
with a podcast, once you start to pull that thread, you suddenly realize, this isn't just 10 people. Everyone just seems to come out of the woodwork. So many interesting things that you find in connections you make. Sticking with the subject of marketing, obviously we've talked about marketing your book and you've done well on that. Congratulations. How have you marketed or promoted your own business? Because there were so many, as we said before, different facets to your business.

It's gone through different stages. So in the beginning of arriving in Caversham, not knowing anybody, it was very much leaflets, in cafes, on community boards. I had a website right from the beginning, building that email list. And then I was thinking about this before speaking to you and it depends very much on the part of the business.

I think it's still very much the case that for the in-person classes and events, it's about word of mouth now. I've been here long enough in the area that people talk to each other about it. Whereas for the training, it's much more reliant on social media. So on Facebook, on Instagram. And I think one thing that has worked really well is having free sessions. So if we have a big training coming up, we tend to have an event where we give something of value during that

It might be an hour. So we have a course coming up, for example, that's yoga nidra, particular form of relaxation and circle, because they work really well together. And so on Monday, I'll be running a session where I give people the experience of what it's like to be in yoga nidra, to hear the style that I deliver, experience what it's like to be held within a circle with very simple check-in, intention setting, hearing how people experience the practice.

And then they've got a chance to ask about the training, a Q &A. And that has worked really well because I think it's very much that personal element. And if somebody can meet you, even if it's online, get a sense of who you are and what you're about, that means so much. That will go a much longer way than something less interactive.

Speaker 2 (13:56.106)
Now, I also mentioned this to you before and I think it's really interesting. If anyone looks at your website, they'll see there are so many different parts. As you said, there's the book, there are the products in the shop, there's the yoga, there's the different types of yoga circles. There are so many things that you do. Plus you have, I should say, know, husband and two children. How do you manage everything? Where do you find time for it? Or is it you just go through seasons of phases of focusing on one thing? How do you do it?

It's a question I get asked a lot. I don't watch TV, so I think that creates quite a lot of time. I do love reading. I'm an avid reader. I think what you were saying about cyclical is a really interesting angle on it because I find that particularly as I've got older, the amount of light has a big effect on my energy level. So I'm very excited coming into spring and then to summer when there's going to be longer days because

What I find, especially for my writing, is that in the summer, very easy to get up early before the rest of the household is awake and I'll spend an hour writing. Whereas in the winter, I just don't have that energy available. And so this year I very consciously thought, well, that's okay. I'm not going to try and push myself beyond the energy that's available. And I think that's another way that helps make it sustainable.

So I'm very conscious of that side of it. And I think an important part also is I really put rest into my day consciously. So it's very tempting when you're busy to think more, more, more, more, more, pack it in, pack it in. But actually I try and do a yoga nidra relaxation. The sweet spot for me is a sort of 15 to 20 minute rest. And that downtime is actually when I get a lot of ideas. When I'm coming out of the relaxation, my mind pop, pop, pop, pop.

All these ideas. And that's where some of the ideas for the books have actually come from. That liminal space where you're not stuck in particular way of thinking and your to-do list, but you're in that sort of daydreamy space where anything's possible. So I really recommend for people's creativity to put a little session of rest, maybe some journaling afterwards to just see what surprises you, what comes up.

Speaker 2 (16:17.998)
I think that is a wonderful answer. And I have to say, you are not the first person as well to suggest to me having rests. And that is something that I know I am really bad at. So I am consciously going to start doing that. So thank you. What are your plans for this year or going forwards for your business?

What I'm really excited about is trying to take the circle format into different environments. So I would love to take it into schools. And there is a precedent for this. one of the people I interviewed recently has done this very successfully in a number of schools, but he gave me one key example, which was a school in Leeds. And it wasn't, you know, it a very special school and very special area. It was a very standard school and they implemented circles three times a week.

half an hour each. And it has completely changed the behavior in the school. It's changed the grades, the grades have improved. It's had a massive effect. And I think it's because the children feel seen in a way where they're able to share emotionally kind of how they are that week, how the weekend went. They feel somebody's really interested in them. So it's not that just sort of check in, are you in school?

have you handed in your homework, but that just extra little bit of interest that I think makes all the difference. So that's one area that I would really love to work in a lot more. And then the other one is to bring older people and teens together, I think would be fantastic, in circle, where they can share their different perspectives on life. And I think that would be really fruitful and, you know, bring out the best in both age groups.

Brilliant. know lots of community groups and things. It tends to be on the older range. So if you had that in a community group, you encourage the circle approach. think that would work. When did you get so many ideas and everyone would feel so energized from it?

Speaker 1 (18:19.532)
Yeah, so if there's anybody out there listening that has a particular community where they think, it'd be great to support them to think about their experiences and be able to express them in a sort of unguarded way, just that this is who I am, this is my life. I'd love to hear from you.

Do you have anything that you'd like to leave our listeners with?

think it's to really encourage people. But if you see that there is a gap in the market, like I was explaining with my books, it might be you that is the person to fill that gap. So for example, one of the, well, it was the first children's book that I did. I was running circles for mothers and daughters and I was approached by some moms from my daughter's primary school who wanted

a group for earlier, so sort of seven to nine year olds, because some of them were changing earlier, going through puberty earlier, and they're finding that the curriculum at school was coming a little bit too late. So they said, please, please, Tessa, put on a group. And when I was looking for books that they could then support what we'd done in the group, I just couldn't find quite the right one that was not written for our kind of older age group. And I did one of these relaxations, and when I came out,

I know exactly how I can do it. I want to make it an action book. So I just sort of saw the book almost in its entirety and it's been fantastic because it's really fun. And the thing that's made me happiest is that people say it's not a book that the girls will just read once and then it's done, it's put away because it's quite interactive.

Speaker 1 (20:02.254)
they'll go back to it again and again and again. And each time they read it, they're remembering a different piece of information or they're understanding things in a different way. So it's things like that where if you feel like something is not available, go with it. You can be that person that brings something that nobody's thought of before that could make a big difference to somebody.

Be the change that you want to see in the world. Don't wait for someone else to do it. Tessa, I have thoroughly enjoyed this. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I could easily go for another hour with you, but I we've got to finish.

invite to me.