Speaker 2 (00:00.366)
Hello everyone and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. I'm Maria and today I'm speaking with Glen Dinning, Director of Blue Collar Group. Glen, hello and welcome to the podcast. How are you?

I'm great, thank you for having me.

Welcome and thank you for inviting me to Blue Collar today. I see the images behind us. They are lovely. I'm so pleased you've got them in here. So what are they?

Well, so these are the images of building Blue Collar Corner. So it's a bit of an emotional roller coaster, to be honest with you, but the land was just derelict. So over time, we had containers dumped here for months and we went through all these problems with different builders and planning permission and that kind of thing. But along the way, lots of pictures and so you end up with quite a nice little montage of everything coming together.

Well, we're gonna be talking more about that journey later, but first of all, I suppose for those people who aren't familiar, what is blue collar?

Speaker 1 (00:52.962)
Well, Blue Collar started in 2016 and we started doing street food markets and festivals. You've got all these different types of food that comes together, maybe 20, 30 different food traders all coming together, selling what they're passionate about, what they specialize in. And then the Blue Collar was the name of the company and we bought those food traders together and put on events and festivals. And then it progresses over time. So then it goes to getting our first permanent site with Blue Collar Corner.

and lots of events and markets and stuff at Reading Football Club along the way.

I believe you started blue collar because you didn't see any good street food options like that in redding, is that right?

Yeah, that's exactly right. My background, I was a real stereotype at school. I was the one selling pens, watches, chocolate bars, that kind of thing. And then about 16, 17, you start getting into stuff like music, comedy, of arty, things like that. And so I did my first event when I was 16, 17. I booked out a function room at an old Labour club and booked comedians and then sold tickets for the show. So

That was my introduction into the events world, if you like. You've to be creative because you haven't got any money and it was a different time and social media was still in the early stages. So it was doing things like getting the comedians to perform half their set in the town centre. Said, look, if you want to see the second half, then buy a ticket for Saturday night. It was one line of jokes on flyers, handing them out. was going on local radio, local newspaper was still quite big at that point.

Speaker 1 (02:30.926)
That was my intro into it. And then for a while I wanted to be a comedy agent and I worked up at Edinburgh Festival. But then I got a sales job and I was working in London and being in London, I was seeing these amazing things happen in places like Brixton, Peckham, Shoreditch, 22, 23 at the time. And I just couldn't believe that the best nights out or the best days out I was having were like an old abandoned petrol station or an empty car park.

And then suddenly you've got all these food trucks coming in selling the greatest food I'd ever had in my life. You've got a real diverse audience because you've got young professionals like I was at the time having a brilliant night out there, but you've also got couples, you've got older couples, you've got families during the day and young kids. And it was so kind of welcoming. It was so all-inclusive. And I was just like, wow, this is it. Like I've never seen anything like it. And then what was happening is these areas that

I think it's fair to say we're maybe a little bit run down. They were traditionally a place that you wouldn't go. These were like the capital of fun and entertainment and I was just loving being there. And so then I'd come back home to Reading and think, why have we not got this? And so that's kind of where it came from. And it was then doing an event. Our first event was in 2016 in Corbury Gardens and, you know, just making it up as you go along, just inviting food traders and...

trying to promote it and trying to get in marquees and lighting and stuff like that. obviously I had no idea what I was doing, but that was the start of it really.

See, that fascinates me. I'll come onto the organisational challenges shortly, but we always say Reading is like one of the multicultural centres. It's so multicultural. How easy was it for you to find these traders doing amazing food? mean, London, you expect is one thing because it's so tightly packed, but how easy was it for you to do it in Reading? And not only have people doing decent food, but they'd stream on the processes. It was consistent. It was high quality.

Speaker 1 (04:33.486)
Yeah, well, I think that there was a scene kind of around Reading, but you could argue it's still the case now, albeit in a different form. With Reading and in street food terms, we benefit from being so close to London, so close to Bristol, which have really established street food scenes. So if the event's good enough, you can kind of pull some people from Bristol, some people from maybe West London, and then the people in between. And obviously the focus is always local. It's always trying to work with local people and local...

companies. But until we really get our own scene, which I don't think we're fully there yet, then it's about finding a sort of compromise and a collab that means you get the quality, you get the experience, you get really interesting brands from those places, and you mix it in with the best of locals. So we're still early stages. I'd say street food probably wasn't as progressive then as what it is now. Street food was a guy selling burritos, which is great. But

I think now our palettes have developed, what we're after has developed and so things have changed and it's improved for the better. So it's just lots of conversations with people and getting our name out there.

The audiences bit is great. So is there anything that you've noticed? Because I imagine that when you start, you just have a variety of street food sellers on, but then you start to know what the reading audience wants, what they like, and then you have to focus more on those types of street food. Is that right? And if so, what do reading want street food wise?

It kind of happened by itself. It's kind of self-policing because if a food trader comes and doesn't do well, then ultimately they're not going to want to come back. So there have been food traders that have been with us since... Well, mean, there's still a couple that did the very first event in 2016 and then there have been others along the way. So I think the reading audience, I wouldn't say is dramatically different to anywhere else, but there are things that go in fashion. So fried chicken, I've got a trader called...

Speaker 1 (06:31.554)
Gurt wings that have been really, really popular with us and have developed their own following in reading from doing our markets and now Blue Collar Corner. So fried chicken is kind of very popular at the moment. Previously gourmet burgers were the big thing. But then there were other things like, you know, we've got a Peruvian trader called Peru Sabor, did the first ever event in 2016. People go, what the hell is Peruvian food? But he just did the most amazing chicken wraps, ox heart, steak wraps.

And because he did it with fire and lots of show and imagination and there was always a lot going on in his gazebo and he was a real showman, people were like, I want to try that. And so he's developed his own following. So I suppose the point of that is that it's not necessarily one type of food that you go, that's going to work. It's all about how it's delivered by the person behind it. How good is the food? How are they selling it? How good is their branding? What are they all about? So.

I think that's a big part of it. And also it depends because the lunchtime markets, that's for the office crowds. And there what you want on a Wednesday or Friday lunchtime from an office is perhaps slightly different to what you want on a Saturday when it's your weekend and you're with your mates and you're a few beers and you want something slightly different there. So it kind of changes depending on the scenario and who's behind it.

That's a really good point actually because I was going to ask you how you marketed and promoted Blue Collar over the years, but I noticed on your website that when traders want to come to you, you ask for their socials and their web presence because yeah, you're right. I imagine it's not you are promoting someone else's business. You are there. Blue Collar has a reputation in reading, but everyone has to be promoting themselves.

Yeah, exactly that. I mean, there were a few exceptions. You do get some amazing chefs that have got no idea about social media and stuff like that. And that's fine. We can work with that and we can help promote them and help give them a wider audience. But generally, I think it's about care and typically if you really care about the food, then you'll really care about your website or your social media and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (08:40.534)
I think stuff like that is important because also social media is our biggest platform now to promote to people. Apart from maybe reputation or word of mouth, it's probably the number one way. So if we've got really attractive pictures of the food looking amazing, then that immediately gives that food trader a head start over the others because that's something that we can shout about and draws people down to the market or to Blue Collar Corner.

I was going to comment on your social media pictures because they are professional photos.

It's a combination really. So some are taken by the food traders, some are taken by me, some are taken by customers. Customers can be really good with the photos they take as well. Sometimes a food blogger or influencer will come in and take pictures and that'll be great. But I think it's funny with that because we've had food traders that have actually gone and had pictures professionally done in the studio and they never seem to resonate in the same way. Whereas if you've got a picture of the food looking

presentable and good and you've got the venue in the background, you've got people in the background, there's so much better and I think it's a credibility thing or it just feels more authentic and even if it's subconscious, maybe this is me reading way too much into it, but even if it's subconscious, people seem to engage more with that than a studio photo. So yeah, it's a combination of all of them really. I did photography at A-level. It was one of these things that becomes actually quite useful later in your life. And I had a teacher, I'll put

pure coincidence I chose to do food as a module when I was doing photography. I was kind getting all these interesting angles and everything and I was trying to do something with, I think it was like chilies, like red and green chilies. My teacher said, I don't want to eat it. He said, with any picture of food, ultimately you've got to look at the picture and say, I want to eat that food. It's something that I always think about now and I always think you could have the artiest, most creative picture going, but ultimately if you don't want to eat that food.

Speaker 1 (10:38.446)
what's the point in putting it out there? So that's kind of always our North Star, I suppose, when we're putting pictures of food out there.

I suppose that's a mantra to live by for any business. It's do you want to buy that project? Do you want to use that product?

Which sounds basic, right? But I think it's easy to forget because you could do really interesting photos of, know, particularly with a blue-collar corner where you've got the backdrop of the flowers or you've got maybe people behind or whatever. But that's the thing. Does the food look good? Does the food look nice? Does it make you go, yeah, I really want to eat that.

One more question on the social then we'll move on. Do you actually pay attention to engagements on your social then or is it literally you want a nice looking board and you don't really pay attention to what people are like in engaging with that doesn't affect the business at all?

No, do pay attention. I think it's important to pay attention. However, there are certain things that I suppose need to be factored in. So for example, if we put a post out saying, we're tweaking our opening hours, these are going to change at Blue Collar Corner. Clearly, that's not going to get the same level of engagement as us putting an amazing picture of Halloumi being pulled apart or amazing looking food. It's not going to get the same engagement, but you need to put it out there. Or likewise,

Speaker 1 (11:52.546)
We open at 11am on the weekends, so we might want to put something out at 9 o'clock in the morning. Now, 9 o'clock in the morning is not as good time to put something out as 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock at night, so your engagement probably won't be that people won't see it as much as they will when you do an evening one. However, you go with the thinking of if one person sees that and thinks, yep, we'll go to Blue Collar and we'll buy that food, then it's worth it. But on the other side of that, obviously you want to put

stuff out that people engage with, that people like, that people react to. So yes, do pay attention to it, but I suppose over time you begin to think, well, maybe that didn't do as well because of X, Y and Z and you can understand the reasons.

clearly this is a well-honed operation. But I imagine you've had to go through many challenges along the way to get to this stage. So what challenges have you faced over the years since you've started and how have you overcome them?

Well, I think social media is one in that you kind of, need to find your own voice. And I think like a lot of people that start their own business, when you start, obviously it's just you. So you have to do everything, right? And so then it's finding a voice that you use on social media that hopefully works in conjunction with your brand. I look back at some of the posts I did in 2016, 2017. My God, I cringe at some of the...

descriptions I use but luckily no one's looking at that time because you've got like 10 followers so obviously it progresses over time and you begin to learn what is relevant for your brand and what isn't. But on a wider point I think the challenges are Blue Collar Corner, the build of that was probably the toughest part and the temptation was very much there to not do it and to walk away. But I think on a more general point it's trying to balance everything, it's trying to

Speaker 1 (13:41.954)
balance the stress of it, it's trying to balance the pressure of wanting the food traders to sell lots of food, be really happy and keep coming back. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. We want people to buy drinks because then it supports people like Double Barrelled Brewery. We want everyone to do well, but that's not always going to happen. So I suppose it's having the perspective to go, some weeks you're going to do brilliantly and it's going to be great and everyone's going to be in a good mood, other weeks not so much. So perspective comes into it.

But also there's always a crisis around the corner. There's always something absolutely bizarre that there might be a thing behind planning or something related to the venue that comes completely left field that you could never prepare for or never expect. I think probably a long answer to explain that it's about being positive all the time and trying to find solutions to problems. So I think that in itself is probably the biggest challenge.

so many things to pull apart that first of all I've got to ask you why did you want to build blue collar corner because like you said it was very difficult it was very challenging why did you feel it necessary to have a physical presence

I just felt that it would take us to the next level. think probably from 2016, you know, talking about seeing those venues in Brixton, Peckham, Shoreditch, that kind of thing. The way that I felt we got to the next level would be to have a permanent area. I felt that we could do more with it. In terms of an event, can be really creative with how you make an event look and feel, but you're always conscious that in four days' time or two weeks' time or whatever, you've to pull everything down.

And you've got a very short period to make money with that. that on the creative side, I wanted to test myself and go, what could we do to make a site that's on brand with Blue Collar? What would a venue that Blue Collar does look like and how would it feel? What do I want? And so I think creatively that was really exciting. And then also it makes sense from a business perspective, you know, you'd be open all year round. You can give more opportunities to food traders. You can

Speaker 1 (15:49.602)
develop things, you can have a bar in there, you can support other businesses like I already mentioned Double Double Barrelled Brewery and having ten lines of their beer here suddenly is great for their business as well as ours. So there were lots of reasons and it felt like the next step, it felt like the natural progression of the business and what we'd been working towards.

Well, I think it was definitely worth it because as I said to you before we started the interview, blue collar has got such a reputation in Reading. You've got the market, you've got the actual physical blue collar corner. How have you got to the stage where people seem to know about blue collar?

Well, that's kind of you to say. there's still, I suppose we all live in an echo chamber in a way and there are still people that are still discovering Blue Collar that don't know what we do. But I think to answer the question, I think it's maybe consistency. It's continuing to do street food markets, to do street food events, continuing to run Blue Collar Corner, bring new food concepts in, be a nice place to be, be a great beer garden in the summer, be a cozy covered place in the winter.

And so I think just over time it develops and with each event you kind of grab a new audience. So Cheese Feast, which was an event we started in 2018, that's been massive for us because that was unbelievable turnout. And then we did it again in 2019 and 2023 and last year as well, actually. And you pick up bits as you go along and you pick up new audiences and new people. And then it's word of mouth, isn't it? So it's word of mouth, it's social media.

is everything. So it's a difficult one to kind of pinpoint it on one thing, but I think ultimately, longevity brings you more people, doesn't it? I mean, if you look at the great businesses in Reading, Purple Turtle are example to us all. And they're popular because they've got that longevity, they've got a great product that's been going for a long period of time. So more more people find out about it and it develops that way.

Speaker 2 (17:54.51)
think you're absolutely right. And as we were saying before, if you do the core of what you do very well, then each year you're constantly adding and building and developing and testing. So then that core that you do very well just slowly grows. But like you said, it's persistence over time. So I think that's a very valid point. How do you decide what type of events to put on? You said that Cheesefest was really well. Do you look at social and find out what is trending or is there another way you decide, oh, we need to do X type of events?

I think, to be honest with you, it's probably not that developed of a theory. It's more kind of in gut instincts, what would be interesting, what would be popular. Cheese feast was one that I just felt that we could have lots of fun with that. You we could have rick-la-la, we could have halloumi fries, we could have cheese toasties, we could have those big cheese wheel pasta dishes. And it opened up really exciting food concepts. And it just felt like cheese is popular and it would work.

probably didn't realise the level of how popular that particular event would be. Because then over time, then you think, well, we can do cheesy music. we can have, you know, ABBA tributes. I we have Barry from EastEnders one year that was fantastic doing karaoke. So we can really have fun with that concept. But then likewise, you know, we worked together with guys that they're called Wing Jam. They did a really cool chicken wing festival here. And that was because chicken wings were very

and still are incredibly popular. You can have lots of fun with that. You can bring some really, really high quality food traders to Reading. Other ones like the British Street Food Awards, they're a body that we've worked with for a long period of time now and that's the best street food traders in the country. Well, we knew that would go down well in Reading and we knew that would be a popular one. So you kind of get a bit of a gut feeling and you just sense wherever stuff will work. And obviously you have a few

miss hits on the way that just don't work. You know, we did an event in Abbey Ruins once that just flopped and just didn't work at all. So there's lots of, lots of trial and error, suppose.

Speaker 2 (20:01.87)
I suppose when you have that trial and error, it may not have worked, but you've no idea why. There are probably a dozen different factors why it didn't work. If you've done it a different day or time of year, maybe it worked.

Yeah, there's a little bit of that. mean, there's... So that particular event was called Meat Feast. It was back in 2018. So the Abbey Ruins had just reopened. So a lot people didn't know where the Abbey Ruins was. It sounds silly now, but people just didn't walk around that way at the time. The concept at that point wasn't the right concept. Weather didn't help. It was difficult. So yeah, there's lots of factors that go into that, but I'm sad enough and obsessed enough to analyze every reason and...

beat myself up about why that worked or why that didn't work. So hopefully, you try and learn from that and think, well, maybe we won't do that one next time, but others have been a success, so we'll bring them back the following year.

What do you for vegetarian vegan food? I mean, it seems to be getting more popular. You hear about more people. Has that affected what you do at all?

Yeah, I mean, we've had some fantastic traders of that ilk. I VeggieVors, who are now in Caversham doing vegan food, they started with us in 2017. And it's credit to them because I think they themselves have really developed the vegan scene in Reading and showed people that you can have vegan food that's home-cooked and unbelievably good and can still be indulgent and can still be interesting rather than just almost feeling like you're doing it for a health reason or something like that. So,

Speaker 1 (21:30.306)
They've been brilliant. We've had others along the way that have really pushed the boundaries. But we always try and make sure we're covering every sort of food group, you like. So vegans, veggies, gluten-free, halal, all those things. We try and make sure every market, every food line up at Blue Collar Corner covers those sectors. Because ultimately, the benefit of street food and of Blue Collar Corner or the market is that you can come with friends.

and don't all have to the same thing. can go over to a kitchen, know that that's the one thing that they specialize in, that they're really good, that they have taken months, if not years, honing the perfect recipes and doing that as well as they possibly can. But also, because you've got the variety, it will mean that if you're a vegan, it's not a token option. It's a proper option that's been given thought and love and attention and given you an interesting option. So...

it's important that we factor that in and we always try and factor that in.

As a business, is there something that you'd like to improve on or gain more skills in or expertise in a certain topic or part of the business?

Yeah, I think, I mean, we talk about social media and social media has been massive for us, but then the thing with that is constantly changing. So, you know, I'm of the generation where with the time of Blue Collar, Instagram has been our biggest performer. Facebook may be not too far behind. And then Twitter was massive as well. And then things change, you know, X comes over and takes over Twitter and that changes things. The rise of TikTok, the rise of stuff like Snapchat as well. So,

Speaker 1 (23:10.946)
I suppose it's trying to be current and trying to stay up to date with that and trying to stay on brand and not trying to follow every single craze or thing that's going on in social media, but also trying to be up to date and modern. So I think that's a real challenge into itself. And I think ultimately it will come to a point where social media will be maybe shared or there'll be someone brought into the business to handle that side of things. But I think that would probably be the first thing that springs to mind.

What is in the future for Blue Collar? What would like to achieve?

Naturally Blue Collar Corner continues to develop. mean, we were talking about it before. When the venue opened in March 2022, it was a fantastic time. was arguably at its most popular in many ways because we'd just opened and everyone wanted to see the venue. But actually, as you look at it now, we're so much better as a venue. We've got more cover, we've got heaters on every table, we've got proper stage, we've got a proper screen, we've got comfortable areas.

better kitchens, better everything, everything improves. So I think the focus for us is to make Blue Collar Corner as good as it can be. that will mean interesting food, that will mean great music, that will mean really good drinks, it will mean a nice cozy place to be in the winter, interesting events on at the venue, a fantastic beer garden in the summer. So it's constantly trying to improve that. So that would probably be the first and foremost thing. And then I think secondly,

The plan is to do more blue collars in other towns and other cities. So finding the land that's central in a town or city centre can be difficult and it's got to be the right place. It's got to be a place that we would feel blue collar has a good chance of being popular in. Because obviously we're very attached to Reading, know, we're Reading people, we love Reading. So to try and replicate that is going to be difficult. But for the natural progression of the business, I think it's important that we do that, that it's important we...

Speaker 1 (25:10.702)
continue to keep people employed, we continue to improve and it will be good for our suppliers like Double Barrelled Brewery or it would be good for our street food traders to give them more opportunities. yeah, I think it's twofold. think it's improving what we do day to day at the moment, but in the long term, it's finding more areas of land to go and build more of these venues.

I love that. And is there anything you'd to leave our listeners with?

I think I'd just say in a really difficult time for hospitality at the moment, it's been well documented. I think it's always worth thinking about the ones that you want to stay open, know, independent businesses. We've been fortunate in Reading that there are fantastic independent businesses in the town centre, in, in Caversham, in Kennet Island, places like that. And so I'd always think when you're getting a delivery or when you're going out to always think of the places that you'd be most gutted about if they closed. So I think.

That would be my message.

Thank you so much for time today. I've really enjoyed talking with you and I can't wait for people to hear this.

Speaker 1 (26:13.42)
My absolute pleasure, thank you.