Maria Lloyd (00:00.014) Hello everyone and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. I'm Maria and today I'm speaking with Zoe Dudding, founder of Mind Body Baby. Zoe, thank you for coming on. How are you doing? Zoe Dudding (00:13.251) Thank you for having me, I'm great, thank you. Yeah, all good, how are you? Maria Lloyd (00:20.16) Yeah really good thanks apart from the technical difficulties that we've both experienced this morning but that's just part of it isn't it? Zoe Dudding (00:23.467) Yeah, it is absolutely, it's all adds to the fun I'd say. Maria Lloyd (00:31.694) So to get started, you are the founder of Mind Body Baby and you specialise in what is called hypnobirthing, don't you? So could you just explain what hypnobirthing is? Zoe Dudding (01:07.459) So, hypnobirthing is childbirth education and that education very much puts the birthing person in the driving seat of their experience. So, through using visualisation, deep relaxation and empowerment, they're actually able to be put in the driving seat versus traditional antenatal education, which kind of sees more like external sources telling the mother typically how it's going to be, what the process looks like. It just flips it a little bit and very much empowers the mother. Maria Lloyd (01:49.51) brilliant, that's really good. Because when you have it, normally you go through, as we discussed before, normally if you are, you you have expectant mothers, you see them go through the education of this is what's going to happen. It can be very scary, but like you said, by putting them in the driving seat, you make it much more like they are in power and control, don't you? Zoe Dudding (02:07.477) Absolutely, that's it. it's giving them that sense of empowerment of the experience and trusting themselves in their bodies because we're kind of conditioned these days not to do that so much. So yeah, it's fascinating. It really is. Maria Lloyd (02:22.222) Yeah. Maria Lloyd (02:26.446) So how did you come to specialize in hypnobirthing then? Zoe Dudding (02:29.027) Well, actually back in 2020, I had my first son and I was very lucky to discover hypnobirthing before that first birth experience. And I went on then to have a fantastic experience birthing him, even though it was during lockdown and all the craziness that came with that. Hypnobirthing kept me grounded, centered, focused on my job at hand, which at the time actually was really powerful and helpful. And then obviously went on to do that again. I had my second son in 2022. So I had two fantastic birth experiences that came, you know, off the back of learning this stuff, believing in myself. And yeah, they were just so powerful. And it was just something that blew me away. The actual, the power in birth and what my body could do. So I've just found it fascinating since that point. Maria Lloyd (03:25.718) Yes. So how did hypnobirthing change? Do you have a, this is what you thought about birthing before and then hypnobirthing changed and this is what you thought about it afterwards? Zoe Dudding (03:33.205) Yeah, absolutely. So previous to giving birth myself, I guess we all have a subconscious view on what we think birth will be like. Even when you're young, you kind of think, yeah, birthing lady in hospital, on her back, screaming in pain. Like you just have that vision of, know, whatever you've seen on TV, we are just drip fed this content on what we believe birth will look like. So my view was that for sure. And then after taking a hypnobirthing course with a lovely educator at the time, I was able to sort of completely flip that view and realize, actually, as mammals, we are completely in control of our own birth and we can have a fantastic, peaceful, quiet birth. It's not necessarily, well, it's kind of the opposite of what I might have previously thought it to be. And so, yeah. Maria Lloyd (04:25.55) You said that's really empowering. Now, what I really like is you obviously founded Mind Body Baby and you've got your hypno birthing teaching that you do for expectant mothers, but your background is actually in marketing, isn't it? So what lessons did you bring from marketing that you think have really helped you in starting your own business? Zoe Dudding (04:33.186) Mm-hmm. Zoe Dudding (04:44.107) There's so much that, you know, there's a huge wealth of knowledge there that I can bring over to this, but there's also a level of frustration with that because I kind of look at what I think it could be and how big and how shiny it could be, but I can't facilitate that as a new business. You know, I've only just got going, so to speak. So there's a frustration there, but what I've learned is actually to kind of tailor it back. I'm taking it back to basics and starting from the ground up. which is also super exciting. So I kind of knew that to get going, I needed to set up my shopfront, so to speak. So, you know, get your website set up, get your social media and just get those foundations down. But ultimately through all the, you know, the trials and testing of things, I realized I just needed to connect with people in our community, get out there and speak to people, use social media to be social. forge connections and then go and have a coffee with that person. This is kind of how I had to flip my mindset a little bit. Maria Lloyd (05:51.758) It's really interesting, isn't it? Because obviously as part of marketing, you have to rely very much on stats and data in order to show and to demonstrate that what you're doing is actually working or that you're going towards the targets and it's very much data driven. However, quite a lot of the time with relationship building, you can't, I mean, I'm sure there are ways, but you can't necessarily, especially according to traditional marketing, measure it. or say, yes, I've made three contacts, it'll be 50 % conversion rate to get in good opportunities. It doesn't work like that, does it? It's the most random opportunities at the most random times. Zoe Dudding (06:23.075) Yeah, and that's it. It's, think the opportunities are so random and especially in the beginning when there's no automation involved in any of this stuff, it is just you as a one man band trying to just trial and test things. And if you are lucky to make a connection with someone, then it seems to sort of spiral from there, which is, it's just fascinating to get a completely different view on marketing. Maria Lloyd (06:50.616) does your marketing plan look like now? Obviously you've come from corporate, you've got your shopfront up and running and relationships as you said, it's a very important part. So what do do for marketing now? Zoe Dudding (06:53.699) you Zoe Dudding (07:01.599) so my plan isn't polished again. It's kind of tailoring it back a little bit, but it's more what I would consider like a marketing activity calendar. I've got touch points on there. I'm not looking at it too big a scale and it's kind of pinpointing what activities I want to do when, what events I'm looking to do when. So it's more of an activity calendar to give me a rough idea of what's to come and what I need to prepare, but also to keep me accountable as. you know, just one woman trying to do it all. Maria Lloyd (07:36.526) I went for the police car to go past. And do you actually focus, is there any data that you focus on now? I mean, from my own experience, because I'm also in marketing, I tend to look at everyone else's, but when it comes to mine, I am very bad and I need to get better at that with looking at the website and socials and posting regularly. What is it like for you? Do you actually pay attention to that or is it just your activities? You want to get the first year, two years under your belt and then you're going to be much more. Zoe Dudding (07:37.644) Yeah. Maria Lloyd (08:06.335) you go to delve down a bit more. Zoe Dudding (08:07.317) Yeah, at the minute I'm not too focused on the data. think in time with, you know, more data to look at, very much so. But at the minute I can look at data, like, you know, things like what, what performs well on social media. And that might be my own data of things that I can see that have reached a lot of people, or it might be looking at the data of people that are already where I'd like to be and what's performing well for them. So that data, yes, eventually I'd love to have a whole view on, you know, how much data goes into that end customer and being able to calculate it all. But again, it's not trying to run before I can walk as a new business. And it's just being kind of more methodical in what I can do right now to set me up for success. Maria Lloyd (08:55.33) think that's a very good approach here and I love your intentionality with and your patience with yourself. As you said, you've just started, you've been going, isn't it just a year now or just under a year? Zoe Dudding (09:03.671) Just a year, yeah, a year in October, so yeah. Maria Lloyd (09:08.378) nearly there, congratulations. So you've been going for nearly a year, but already you've done so much. You've got your shop front up and running. You've had clients, you've had a couple of awards. So how have you managed to do that? Zoe Dudding (09:19.981) just through, think, I'm someone that tends to veer away from the task at hand. So I've really intentionally talked to myself and tried to stay focused on just a few key things and almost forcing myself to put some blinkers on and just stay in my lane. And I think that's probably where that's come from. And ultimately, I love marketing. It's a real passion of mine and I was in it for 10 plus years. So that comes naturally, but ultimately I'm just trying to deliver to my customers that I've got and deliver really well so that they, you know, I've seen it. So I believe it. They're out in the community, you know, really almost grabbing expectant parents being like, you need to contact Zoe cause what she's doing is great. And it's transformed the way we've birthed. So that's what I'm focusing on. Maria Lloyd (10:10.478) So what does your average week look like then? Like I said, you're very disciplined with yourself. You've got two small boys. How do you manage to run your business within your typical week? Zoe Dudding (10:19.775) It's again, yeah, again, being sort of rigid with myself. I have my days that I can dedicate to my body baby, you know, and specific times within that day. I was always someone that wanted to work above and beyond my hours, you know, in the corporate world, I would do that. And I loved it. But with children now, I try and be more intentional with my time as well. So typically my routines would be that. Every morning, even if I've got my children, I'm coming on just quickly to check, you know, social media, DMs, to check my emails, to check any of my form conversions that I've set up just to make sure that I don't have any lukewarm leads sat there that, you know, wants to chat with me. So that's something I do every day. And then on the days when my children are out and I'm focused on my body, baby, I'm sort of intentional with that time and batching content if I can't so that. Again, I've got that marketing activity calendar. That stuff's just ready to go off the bat. So I've got that ready and I'm just trying to spend that time again, looking at my customers. Is there any additional research I need to be doing to, know, when their course is upcoming, if there's something unique to their birth that, you know, I might need more information on doing all that stuff within the time I've got. Maria Lloyd (11:40.462) That's amazing. I think it really makes a difference with having your time and making sure that certain activities are done because it's over time then that you'll be able to measure and see a difference. If you are doing batching your content, you'll be able to see in six months time, six months worth of batch content. So it's really making a difference for you. Zoe Dudding (11:57.077) Yeah. And I think, you know, it's kind of fun as well. We can do things that are a little bit more on trend at the time in terms of batching content. It might not always work because there might be something that's performing well then. And then it comes the question of, do I want to join in this trend? Is this right for my business or not? And you can, you can, you know, it's just because you've got this calendar, you don't have to stick to it. It's kind of fluid and you can move around it. But yeah, it's always kind of taking the focus back to why am I doing this? And it's, it's not. a vanity metric where we're just trying to join in because everyone's doing it, so to speak. Maria Lloyd (12:35.928) think that's a very good tip. Would you say that would be your tip for business owners to think about their branding and how something fits in? Or do you have any of the core tips you'd like to tell business owners? Zoe Dudding (12:45.283) Yes, very much. would say, yeah, try not to just be trend led because a trend is lovely and it might spike your numbers, but really that's not necessarily the end goal just to spike the numbers. It's not necessarily going to bring business. I would just say, yeah, don't lose yourself in vanity metrics. It's not necessarily important. It's a nice to have. It might make you feel good, but at the end of the day, it's not necessarily going to convert. So I would say, yeah, that for sure. Give your website constant love. always say a website is never done. Don't just do it and forget about it. Same with Google reviews, Google listings. They all need love and attention. So yeah, it's probably a couple of my top tips. Maria Lloyd (13:28.558) I think they're very good tips. And yes, the website one especially, I am terrible at. I need to really get back to that. It's one of those things where you do it and then you get distracted with other things. But it's so important because as you said, it's your shopfront. It's the first thing people are going to find or pass on to friends. So yeah, that's crucial to have right. Yeah. Zoe Dudding (13:31.093) Yeah. Zoe Dudding (13:45.645) Yeah, I think many people let it slide. You know, I think we all are guilty of letting our website slide, but the more active you are, the more active it is. And it's shown to people more regularly that way. So yeah. Maria Lloyd (14:03.15) I mean, you've said before, obviously we've said how you've done so well in like less than a year of setting up your own business. It's going really well. Have you faced any challenges apart from the challenge of, you you need to say yourself down and be patient? And how have you overcome those challenges? Zoe Dudding (14:15.487) Yeah, the challenges is probably, you know, if there are small business owners listening, was probably challenges that they're very familiar with. But I would say money being the first one that again, not not being able to sort of think big, you know, and scale up at this point. It's almost yeah, money is the issue because there's many things I'd love to do that at the minute. Again, I'm just trying to be very focused in where I'm spending money. And then eventually I'll be able to solve. put that money back into the business as it comes and you know try to stay positive in my mindset and that's definitely something I've learned from hypnobirthing just by the way it's just being positive but yeah yeah for sure. Maria Lloyd (15:00.494) think the positivity point is a key and it's so crucial because when you're out there meeting people, you want to convey that positivity. You want people to be around you and to reach out to you and to tell everyone about you. that positivity is so crucial. What are your thoughts on the vicious circle that you have where you have a small business owner, they're just starting or they've been in a while, but it's hard to bring in money and because it's hard to bring in money, they don't spend anything on marketing or trying to... get out there and so there's no investment which leads to probably the business not doing so well, which obviously leads into less money. So it feels like a bit of a vicious circle. Do you have any thoughts on that or suggestions? Zoe Dudding (15:42.179) Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, think it's a really common sort of cycle to get into. I think it's just being really conscious of where you're spending your marketing money or that budget, however big it is or however small. There's so many things that we have access to these days, these days that are really good tools. So social media is free, of course, and that's just your time spent on it and it's how you use it. So it's called social for a reason. You're on there to be social. So I would say to them to pick two or three aspects then that they can focus on in their business and spend their budget on wisely. Instead of over spending on a whole host of things, I would say stay focused, know, have a website, of course, it's time consuming and you can either do it yourself if you've got time or you can outsource it. But just to avoid spending over and above your means constantly, I would say try to stay focused and You kind of do have to test things to see what that ROI is and where you get it back. But if you've tried something and it doesn't work, you know, likelihood is it's just not the right fit for your business. Maria Lloyd (19:29.518) I think that's absolutely right. you're totally right, first of all, about the two to three aspects that people need to focus on. But what I think the big misconception is that people associate money with being able to reach people. And the idea, I think, behind that is very misled because if you have money, just because you spend it doesn't mean you spend it in the right way. So most people don't even know what measurements to look at to see, or they don't need to test a bit of money and then to double down on what's gone well. Zoe Dudding (19:33.079) Thank Maria Lloyd (19:59.202) So even if they are spending, they're probably not spending in the right way. So just because you've got money doesn't mean you're doing the best thing for your business. Zoe Dudding (20:08.906) Yeah, that's it. You don't want to just waste the means that you have by just spending on everything. you know, for me, in my business at the minute, my focus is very much, you know, filling, thinking of that marketing funnel, filling the top of the funnel and just, you know, getting as many people in there. And yes, we know that they will drip out for, you know, the prices don't suit them or perhaps they don't gel with me or whatever it is, you know, people will sort of... leak from that leaky funnel but eventually they'll drip through and I think it's just trying to fill that funnel as best you can with the means you have. Maria Lloyd (20:47.34) Yes, indeed. And the key thing is that they've got to be spending the time well, don't they? So it's really more about time than money. You could do everything for free. She did social networking, all of those things you can do for free. You don't need to spend any money, but you need to be very intentional about it and have a strategy behind it, which is key. Yeah, thank you. think that was really interesting points. Hopefully that'll help lots of business owners who are listening. So what... Zoe Dudding (20:53.1) Mm-hmm. Maria Lloyd (21:14.41) What plans do you have going forwards in developing your business then? Zoe Dudding (21:18.71) mean, there's so much that I'd love to do. I have this vision of where I could take the business and eventually expand into other areas, early parenthood and all the trials and tribulations that come with that. I've got very much a view of where I need to be, but again, trying to stay focused. I'm just looking at the next year for now. think everything always feels much more manageable if you just look at the next step and how you're gonna get there. So I'm thinking about... what events that I can focus on to get me in front of people and to meet the people I'm going to help and where I can spend my little budget, different things like that. But yeah, very much a year at a glance rather than the bigger picture for now. Maria Lloyd (22:03.598) You can tell you've got a background in marketing with your focus on looking at a big goal, but then being able to break it down into steps and thinking about where to spend your money or activities to do in order to get to that ultimate goal. Zoe Dudding (22:14.868) Yeah, yeah definitely. Yeah I guess it does seep in, it's kind of muscle memory. Maria Lloyd (22:20.322) Yeah. Now, do you have a message you want to tell any mums or people who know other mums or couples who expecting a baby? Zoe Dudding (22:30.59) Yeah, I would just say to any expectant parents that their birth is absolutely theirs to own, that everything that they need to birth that baby comes within and I think there's so much fear around it actually, they just need to be reminded that we are humans and this is kind of functionally what we're made to do and it's you know the case of you know the requirement for medical intervention as such, the percentages where that is required are actually so small but rest assured if you need it it's there but very much just put the power in yourself so to speak to get yourself going it's all manageable with the right mindset Maria Lloyd (23:12.184) that's lovely, Zoe. And are there any final thoughts you'd like to leave our listeners with today? Zoe Dudding (23:18.114) I would just say in terms, if they're thinking as well, lot of this conversation has been around marketing. If they're thinking about their own marketing, then look at what they're consuming, perhaps look at how they become a customer. What are they buying into? Because that often tells a story in itself. Look at things that perform well and think, why did I really enjoy that piece of content? Or why does that flyer speak to me so much? So just to... almost use the world around them a little bit. think that's really valuable and I'd always just say give it a go because you you can't lose out if you've tried you've tried and I think that's just the best way to approach it. Maria Lloyd (24:01.528) Wise words. Zoe, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Everyone, if you know someone who is expecting a baby or may need Zoe services, please check out Mind Body Baby. And yeah, Zoe, we're going to have to meet up at some point in person because we've got a lot to talk about marketing wise. Zoe Dudding (24:18.174) Absolutely, I'll see you there Maria, we'll get a coffee. Yes, yeah absolutely. Thank you for having me.