Speaker 2 (00:00.152)
Hello everyone and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. I'm Maria and today I'm speaking with Liz Felix from Liz Felix Hats. Hello Liz, how are you?

I'm very well, thank you Maria.

Thank you for inviting me to your beautiful store today. mean, if you can see the video, there are so many pretty colorful hats in the background. They're amazing. Thank you. To your background and how did you enter? Your background isn't in Millenary, isn't it?

Not initially. So as I grew up, my great grandfather, my grandfather were both Saville Row retailers. So I was always taught from a young age to sew, to knit, that type of thing. And my eldest brother was also very, very artistic and made puppets and wigs and all sorts of things. So I grew up from my mother's side in a very creative environment. My father, however, was a businessman and didn't get that at all.

So I wanted to go to fashion college. My father said, absolutely not, you're going to be an accountant. I thought, absolutely not, ran away from home. So I ended up working in various jobs in the accounts departments, in recruitment and in sales and learnt a lot about business. And when my daughter was born,

Speaker 1 (01:23.066)
I bought her a hat and pinafore to craft fair. And she looks so cute just learning to walk that I made her another one. I copied the pattern of the hat that I'd bought and I made another one. I adapted it, made more. And people started to stop me in the street and say, where did you get that from? It's amazing. I'd like one. I'd like one for my daughter, my bridesmaids, all sorts of things. And it escalated from there. And so then I went to the London College of Fashion.

and trained in millinery and have been on lots of courses since because millinery, like every industry, is continuously evolving and there are new products and new ways of making things. However, it is steeped in tradition and the core manufacturing process of a hat is very traditional.

so many things to unpack there. The lessons, we're going to come to those later with your core business lessons, how you got into millinery. I mean, that is fascinating. And I'm sure that's going to be the same for most people, that you find out what you're passionate about just by trying new things and experimenting. So I really like that. And this angle that millinery is based in tradition. I love this idea of having something which is based in tradition, which I guess most businesses are to some degree, but then they're in

how you change them, how you add your personal angles. So there's a lot that we're going to be unpacking there. But first of all, like I said, we are in your store. As you said, you were doing hats from home, you did one for your daughter. So what are the benefits for you of having a physical store when as we know there's so much like cost or effort attached with having a physical store?

There is, but what I have learnt is that buying hats online does not work. So we spend a lot of time with our makeup, with our hair, having our hair styled because it frames our face. It's what people see first. When you put a hat on, it does the same. not like with every hairstyle, not every hat is going to suit you or give the image that you want to portray.

Speaker 1 (03:31.746)
So it's vitally important that you, one, try the hat on and two, colors, however hard you try, do not relay the same on a computer or on a phone. And so had one lady came to see me. She had ordered 17 hats online and none of them were right. Either the style didn't suit her, they were too tight, they were too big, or the color was just simply very different to what she thought she was buying.

So then she came in to see me and she just said, why did I do that? Why did I think that was a good idea? So I think having a physical store is really important. And I have a window onto the world here and everyone who drives past or walks past has a window into my little world. And so many people have commented what a happy shop it looks. It's so colorful and bright. And that in itself is

Really all the advertising I need, have lots of word of mouth, but people regularly looking in the window, when it comes to the point that they need or someone they know needs a hat, they know I'm here.

think you're absolutely right and because we don't really wear hats nowadays, we may wear them for special occasions, but you're right, if you aren't familiar with wearing hats, it's quite difficult to suddenly buy one online, you put it on your head and you're like, this doesn't seem right. But there are so many things to take into consideration. So you need someone who is familiar with hats, how you meant to wear it, how it's supposed to fit, how it's supposed to look, the best style. It's like wearing clothes. You can't just put anything on from the gorgeous looking model in a magazine may look

stunning in it, but it may not suit your body shape or your colouring, anything like that. So you're having someone to help you on that is so important.

Speaker 1 (05:17.972)
It is. Hats transform how you feel. They transform how you look. They're very individual. Not everyone will go for the same hat, and it's important that the hat fits into your lifestyle and the occasion you're wearing the hat for. So, to give you an example, if you are mother of the bride wearing a downturned Audrey Hepburn style hat,

that comes right down over the face is not great for photographs and it's definitely not good for kissing your guests. So having a side that's open and available and having your eyes visible. So it's really important and I can guide and encourage people and encourage them to try things on that maybe they wouldn't have thought they would like.

We should say as well that you've got your shop here in Caversham, but you have recently moved from Henley and that in itself I find really interesting because you think Henley, well, that's a brilliant place surely for a hat shop. Henley's got that wealth, that prestige attached to it. You think there's lots of expendable income around that area. So why did you decide to move from Henley?

It wasn't my decision. I'd been in Henley for quite a few years, over seven years, and then COVID came. And I realized pretty quickly that the industry that I work in, mostly in events, was not going to recover straight away. And I did not feel that the shop was viable at that point. And so I closed it.

I moved into a small retail unit outside of Henley and Caversham actually, north of Caversham at Kidmore End, where I saw people by appointment. But now that the social events are all back and running and I felt I had a loyal customer base, but I felt that I needed to be getting more momentum with new clients. And I kept driving past this shop and it just kept calling out to me.

Speaker 1 (07:24.736)
And to be honest, moving back to Henley was not viable because the rents were so extreme. Henley has a prestigious label, but I think actually Caversham is a real upcoming town and a lot of people from my areas, such as Henley, actually like to come to Caversham. They don't want to go into Reading. They don't want to cross the bridge, but they're very happy to come into Caversham and enjoying everything that is Caversham.

which is becoming very bustly, lots of gorgeous individual cafes and little shops. So I just felt this was the right place for me at this point in time.

So true. And I think that's a very valuable lesson for two reasons. First, well, you know your audience, you know what they're willing to do, what they're not willing to do. But also knowing that because the rents are so high and honey, there are other options. It's not just because path A won't work, doesn't mean that something else won't work. So knowing what the different options are and how you can get around it, I think that's brilliant. So you've always got the hats.

But you have other revenue streams, you? So because normally you think, well, how can you make a living on hats 365 days a year? So what are your other revenue streams?

So when I closed the shop in Henley, I retrained as a celebrant, which is something I had wanted to do for many, many years, but I love making hats so much and helping people. It was never really an option. COVID gave me that option and I retrained and work as a celebrant, which when we are out of season with the hats, I spend a lot more time doing the celebrancy. during peak hat time, I...

Speaker 1 (09:06.958)
reduce the amount of celebrancy work that I do. So it works really beautifully alongside each other.

So when is peak hat season compared to peak celebrancy season?

So peak hat season has always been spring, early summer. So we've got lots of weddings in this spring and summer. We have Ascot, we have of course Henley Regatta and I do exhibit at Regatta. And after that, it really, really quietens down a lot of millinery shops and suppliers actually close for several weeks after Ascot.

I'm still busy because I have Henley just down the road. But yes, there's a very short window of hat craziness in the spring and early summer. And celebrancy sadly is probably busier in the winter months and when it's colder.

Yes, for funerals.

Speaker 1 (10:08.682)
Yes, and I do a lot of funerals. do weddings as well, but my main income stream is funerals.

So that's definitely more of a portfolio career, isn't it? The fact that you've got these two different revenue generated things just alongside each other and they coincide really well.

They do. I am very lucky that I'm enabled to do two things that I really love to do. And whilst a lot of people might find that a really strange thing to say, helping people when they are lost, bereaved, and need help in organizing a service that is worthy of their beloved family member is a real honor. And I enjoy public speaking.

I don't particularly like to talk about myself, but talking about the most fascinating and interesting people's lives is amazing. It's a lovely thing to do. And I often leave thinking, I really wish I'd met them. But so many people say to me afterwards, what a lovely service and we didn't realize you knew the deceased. But I feel like I did because I've spent the time with the family and got to know them.

And I think that's important.

Speaker 2 (11:27.256)
it's so important. We'll go back to the Hap business then. What audiences do you serve for the Hap business?

Well, I do have regular clients that come back and I do have a regular client base, which you could put into a certain niche. However, it is my belief that if your daughter is getting married, it doesn't matter if you've got 50 pounds, 5,000 pounds to spend on a hat. It is of equal importance. And therefore I make sure that I have hats available at all different price points.

so that I can serve everyone. And I feel that's really important. When I was in Henley, an old lady came in one day and she said, I've been trying to pluck up the courage to come in. And I hadn't realized it was so nice. And I was really worried about coming in and I was mortified. And I said, why is that? She said, your shop's so pretty and it's so lovely. And I just thought it would be out of my reach.

And so I spent quite a lot of time with her and we had lots of giggles and she tried lots of hats on. And two weeks later, she came in with a whole of her group from the WI because she told them all how wonderful I was and how much fun she'd had trying hats on that they all came in. We had such a giggle together. And I just thought that reinforced in my mind that you have to help everyone, which is why I also buy hats in.

So we have lots of different price points. So not just bespoke hats made to order, but there are hats here that are bought in that are a lower price point.

Speaker 2 (13:06.582)
So how do you market your business then? mean, as you said before, you've got a brilliant location here, which is pretty much all the marketing you need. So is there anything else you do?

I do very little marketing. I'm not brilliant at social media, but I've been nagged and nagged that I needed to do a lot more. So I've been trying really hard at that and I am still learning and that is evolving. Most of my work is word of mouth or returning clients, which to me is really valuable. And I love that because that to me is the most important form of flattery really. And

That pretty much keeps me going. I am in such a high profile position here that I'm getting lots of inquiries and lots of people popping in. I find advertising in newspapers so brief and fleeting. It's only whilst that person's looking at that page and then it's gone. So I tend to find through experience, newspaper and magazine advertising.

is generally very expensive unless it's a newsletter or magazine that is going to be kept and referred back to. So I generally don't advertise in the press.

You are very good at networking. You're part of Caversham Traders. As soon as you get in here, people knew about you, you reached out, which I think is so important. But I think that goes to show you don't have to do everything necessarily. You just have to find a couple of things that work really well for you. Like I said, you've got the great location, you reach out, you're getting to know local business owners, what works for them, for the word of mouth side you're leaning into, as you said. So that's all you need. You don't need to be everywhere doing everything because there is so much to do as a business owner.

Speaker 1 (14:58.124)
Also, I think that my market is very niche. I'm not competing against lots of other people in the town. So I think that's also a point of difference because there's not very many millionaires around. If I was up against lots of other competitors doing exactly the same thing, maybe advertising would be the correct thing for me.

do you manage the business side that you have along with the creative? Most creatives I know, they just want to do the creative, but the business side you need to pay attention to. So how do you do that?

So you are absolutely 100 % correct in that. I just want to make hats. That's what I like to do. I also do like to chat to my clients and make them feel amazing. I hate admin. I'm quite capable of doing it, but I think probably choose not to. If I can get away with it, I would do probably the minimum I need to and then have to binge. So my...

balance of a creative and administration is very poor.

I should say though on that that you have outsourced a couple of the bits, for example the website. So you've taken a couple of things and you've just outsourced them to take it off your plate.

Speaker 1 (16:19.242)
I have, I was in a networking event and one of the questions was very similar to the question you've just asked me. And somebody said, how much money can you make from making a hat per hour effectively? And how much does it cost to pay somebody to do your accounts? And it was a real eye-opener for me because I thought actually I'm probably better

suited and it's better value for me to outsource that accounts. And actually I went ahead and did that then. So there are occasions when I do outsource.

I suppose when you think about it, although it's a cost, it's probably not as much for some of these things as you think compared to how long you'd probably spend on it and not liking it. Let's go back to what we said at the start. You've picked up lots of lessons along the way. I think that one that you picked up from a networking event is so important. Hopefully that's going to help a few people out there. Do you have any other lessons that you've learned along the way that you think would be helpful for business owners?

I would say for small businesses, be brave. Opening a shop is a big deal. It's a big investment. It's a massive commitment. But sometimes we have to be brave. with the balance of a celebrancy, you realize how short life can be. And therefore you have to take the risks. You have to do the gambles. And I think for me, it has been a gamble.

opening a shop again and moving back into the retail space. But I'm loving every minute of it and I feel so positive for the future, for next spring. I'm just very excited about it.

Speaker 2 (18:09.422)
Obviously, when you're making decisions, you're making them in the moment based on the information. When you do something, your perspective and your position will change and then you make another decision based on the experience that you've had running that channel thinking, I need to amend it, I need to tweak it. It hasn't worked, but you've tried it. So yeah, very valuable. We talked about the lessons. Have there been any challenges? I know we said before COVID was a challenge. Any other challenges that you've faced and how have you overcome them?

think particularly to start with is how seasonal millinery is. It is so incredibly seasonal that you can go months really with very little income. And that's pretty scary. That's where the celebrancy obviously helps with income, but it's not a massively well-paid job. And selling sort of bobble hats and flat caps during the winter.

is not going to give you the same income as you get for a dress occasion hat. So I think that's a real obstacle is coming to terms with it and managing your finances through that to enable you to continue through those troughs.

How do you manage those peaks and troughs? You've got the celebrancy, which like you said, that is something. So that is a different revenue to help you in the months where you don't necessarily have such a good income from the millinery side. Do you have any other tips for how people can balance them at all or anything like that?

Yeah, so financially, I make sure that I put money aside from my peak period to cover the basics during the next six months. So I have that in the bank that I know that I can use. And also, I think you try to adapt as much as you can to your circumstances. So if it's really cold, you try and promote.

Speaker 1 (20:12.384)
into the cold, warm hats, scarves, et cetera. If it's raining, then you get the umbrellas out, that type of thing. So you do have to try and tweak what your business is, your business model, and change it to the circumstances. But it is tough and you have to be very sensible with your money.

As we said before, it's only with experience that you learn these things. Yeah, really valuable lessons there. Thank you. What resources or training would you say would be helpful for you as a business owner?

I do think training on social media, but I'm not very good at having loads of information thrown at me. I don't absorb it at all. My mind will wander off onto making something or what I've got to do. So small, short, little training sessions would be great for me. Not a two or three, four hour all day session on IT. When you're a creative,

staring at a screen I find very, very difficult and my attention span just disappears. So I think small, short, informative sessions on social media would be incredibly helpful.

You've just moved here into the Cavisham shop. What are your plans for the next one year, three years?

Speaker 1 (21:38.67)
So I'm not brilliant at planning either. That's probably something I should spend more time on. I know where I would like to be. I know the sort of revenue I would like over the next five years. I'd like to become the destination shop for hats in Berkshire. I want to ensure that everyone knows that there's a hat for them that will suit them. Cause so many people don't have the confidence or think that no hats suit them.

and they come in I'd put a hat on their head and they go, actually that looks really nice. So I want to be known as the person to go to for help, advice. I'd like to do some more training. I want to spend more time actually just making hats. And if I get to the point where I can pay someone to be in the shop whilst I'm upstairs, just making hats, that would be perfect.

Lots of good stuff, there lots of interesting thoughts. What's the final point?

I would say a millinery, despite what people say, is still alive and very relevant today. Yes, it is steeped in tradition, but it is very contemporary these days. We have something for everyone. Every purchase that someone makes from an independent, it has a ripple effect through the community and the local economy. And it makes an awful lot of difference to the retailers.

They're investing in craftsmanship, they're supporting creatives and bonkers people like me. And it's very sustainable. So there are lots and lots of reasons to shop locally, to come to an independent such as mine and make today the occasion rather than leaving buying a hat for a specific occasion, wearing a hat.

Speaker 1 (23:33.784)
can absolutely transform how you feel. It can give you confidence, make your stature better and make you feel special and every day is special.

love that. Throw in one more question at you. You just made me think that, because obviously as you said before, millinery is steeped in tradition. How do you take something which is steeped in tradition and then add, say, a modern angle to it? How do you do that?

I would say millinery, like everything, is developing. There are new products, thermoplastics, and all sorts of different products. mean, historically, you would not have seen a hat made of cinnamate, which is a fine straw. That's probably over the last 20 or 30 years has become really popular. It's very easy to dye. It's quite easy to manipulate. So different products, different fabrics.

how we trim them, how they're worn. So lot of people think that the hats that are on the hairbands are not hats, and they call them various other names like hattinators. If it has a crown and a brim, it is a hat. Now, historically, they would have been clipped on with grips, hair combs into very stylized hair, been sprayed, et cetera. These days, we put them onto a hairband because it's easy.

is easy to put them on, is easy to take them off. So really, as our life is at the moment, everything is about ease, comfort, making life quick. So yeah, that's a big change actually is having hats on hair bands and having this side sweeping style is very popular because it's fits in with events, kissing people.

Speaker 1 (25:24.204)
being able to be seen by the camera, which is so important to so many people these days. You know, having photographs taken, if you can't see your face in the photographs, that's no good. Social media, everything seems to be put on social media. So those types of things also have an influence on how a hat is worn.

So it's the materials, it's the techniques, it's the different social interactions. All of those have helped to adjust something which has been very traditional and bring it into say the modern world. Brilliant, Liz. Thank you so much for your time today. Really fascinating stuff there. And yes, if anyone needs a hat for a special occasion or even just a winter occasion, which is quite appropriate for this time of year, please come and see Liz at Liz Felix Hats.

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (26:10.126)
Thank you very much.