Speaker 2 (00:00.43)
Hello everyone and welcome to the My Local Marketer podcast. I'm Maria and today I'm speaking with Will Carver, local author, podcast host, business owner. I mean, what don't you do Will? Welcome to the podcast.

Hello, thanks for having me. Yeah, I do a lot. I like to do a lot.

We're actually going to jump right in with that question. Could you please time for everyone who you are and the many things that you do as an overview?

Okay. Yes. I am Will Carver. I am a writer. I prefer to go by writer than author. I can go into that if you want, but, yes. So yeah, I write. I usually publish one book a year, which I don't think is a lot. I could do more, but publishing is very slow. So yes, I have my own podcast called Nothing Important Happened Today, where I kind of rant about things that getting on my nerves. And then I also own a fitness business.

with my partner as well, as well as having five teenagers running around the house. So busy.

Speaker 2 (01:00.142)
don't know how you do that. How do you balance everything? I don't know if you work structured or if you just go with the flow. With the five children, I think you must be structured.

structure with them because they have to have things done at a certain time but the rest of it you know I work for myself and there's lots of benefits to that you know I can write whenever I want really I can I don't like getting up early and writing but I will do it if I have to the fitness business tends to take up a lot of the work during the day so I do run it with my partner and she does most of it now but I mean this morning I was up at 5.50

and I had to run a class at 6.30 out in a field somewhere and then come back, take the kids to school and... But I tend to like writing late at night once everyone is kind of down and they've finished all of their things. But you know, I can find pockets in the day between classes or PT clients or whatever. I can sit down for half an hour and just bash out some words. So it's, you know, that's quite lucky really. But yes, so my day is...

are filled.

sounds like you've got nice pockets then. So if during the days, your fitness, the evenings then is roughly when you prefer to write, when everyone is settled and down. And as we said, the podcast, it's something that you do as a release.

Speaker 1 (02:25.058)
Yeah, I really love it, but it is, as you will know, a lot of work, like just to do one episode and because it's on my own. So I have to script everything and then I have to read it out in the right way. And I'm not an actor, so I don't always deliver it the way that I think it should sound in my head. So it can take a few takes and then I have to edit it and that takes a while. then coming up, you know, sorting all the artwork out, everything takes its time.

But yes, that is, that's not a business and it's not making me money. The amount of listeners I have when I do it. mean, if I pushed, I could get to a point where I could put an advert in. Cause I do it through a cast. And once you get to a certain number of listeners, they'll just automatically put an advert in and then pay you each time it gets listened to. So, you know, I know I could earn money, but it, but it isn't about that. You know, the whole publishing industry has changed in the time.

from when I started and the art of writing isn't as important anymore. And so I find I'm having to kind of pull back a little bit with my writing with the things I would normally write about. And so I'm putting that into the podcast. So I'm kind of letting that out because a lot of my books, they have kind of a social commentary and publishers are increasingly wary of people being offended and outraged.

Whereas I think it's an artist's job to kind of talk about these things and make sense of the world that people struggle with. Because writers, musicians and painters, we see things in a different way. You know, we can make difficult subjects more simple. And I think that's kind of come out of publishing quite a bit. You see the things that get in published. You can get a book deal because you've got a certain amount of TikTok followers rather than...

the ability to craft a story. I don't know how we got here. That's led me to kind of vent through the podcast. But it's also quite creative, which I need all the time.

Speaker 2 (04:33.934)
so many routes to go, don't I? think first of let's go right from the top with, you prefer writer to author. Why do you prefer a writer?

Well, I think I still have this crazy idea that words can change the world and art means something. like I said, I think we need it. We need it to make sense of the world. And instead of just, you know, people shouting at us all the time on Twitter or whatever, just with their opinions, we need people to sit down and think, make sense of it and put it forward in a way that is interesting and helps us understand it. I think that's what a writer is.

An author to me is someone who thinks more about their branding and the business side of being a ricer.

I'm with you. It's the popularity, like what sells books rather than is this something I want to be doing or a message to communicate?

And they do all the events. Every single time there's a writing event or a book event, they are there, they're on a panel. And I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but for me, writing is about sitting in a shed in a garden on your own, coming up with something and then it goes out into the world. And now you have to put your thoughts down in pictures of your dinner or whatever. And I don't want it to be about that, but I do know that you have to do it.

Speaker 1 (05:55.948)
I go on quite a lot of podcasts. I really love podcasts and I like going on them. I prefer them to go into do the events where I'm sat on a panel because I think I find that weird that you would get a bunch of writers as well who are, you know, they're insular and we're, you know, again, we have a solitary job and you put us all into a room and expect us to get on and be entertaining and stuff. And it's like, no, this is for comedians. You know, this is...

This is not for us. We just want to, well, I do. I just want to put it out and then start the next thing.

The people that are most well-known, that are most famous, whether it's TikTok or actors, whatever, they're the ones that get the opportunities. So it's not necessarily that you are the best writer or the best podcaster. It's just you happen to be in the right place at the right time and someone's give you a book deal.

Yeah, if you have a huge following, for whatever reason, if you were a sportsman. And I think that's great. think, you know, if, if I suddenly sold five million books and someone said, do you want to have a show in an art gallery? Cause I know you paint or something. I, you know, I'd be, I'd be into that, but you can go onto big brother or a show like that and get a book deal at the end of it. And then they're not related.

What's the connection then between actually wanting to be a published author with a penguin or something like that and actually then going out and self-publishing? Because I've heard a lot of things about the publishers. It's harder to get through. You're more limited. It takes an age. But if you self-publish, you probably don't have that accreditation attached to being self-published, but you've got the freedom to do what you want. You can get it done a lot quicker. So, what are your thoughts on just being self-published or having to go through those publishers?

Speaker 1 (07:44.298)
It's increasingly a more popular option because the pace of publishing is glacial at best. You write a book and sometimes it's two years before it comes out and then you have to go out and talk about it. like, but I've written two other books since then. But self publishing has its benefits in that. Yes. If you write three books a year, you can put three books out. You have to do all your own marketing. You're never going to get a poster on the, you know, the subway.

Well, I understand you don't get that even if you...

Well, not always, no, but I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't feel like I was a real writer. And I'm not saying that these people aren't real writers because I know people like Mark Edwards, he's sold millions and millions and millions of books through self-publishing, but he's always craved a traditional publishing deal because he wants that, like you say, that kudos of being traditionally published. And I think

The thing with it, it is harder, but it should be hard because you have to go through all these different levels and you have to get an agent and then that agent sends you to all the publishers and then you never hear back from some of them. Some of them give you feedback and they might say, this is the worst book I've ever read or change this and send it back to me or whatever. And you need that. You can't just write something and have your mom and your brother and your wife

tell you that it's great because if you do self-publish that and you put it out you can hear that it's not and that's that's a really hard thing when you first start those kind of one-star reviews the things that get really personal as well it's like it's really hard to do I quite like them now they're the ones I read I like them but when you start out it's just very demoralizing but with traditional publishing it's difficult and you have to then go through edits and line edits and

Speaker 1 (09:41.376)
You don't have to design your own cover, which is great. A professional does that for you. You know, it gets marketed. You'll get into reviews in the Times or whatever, and you're not going to get that if you're self-published. So it depends what you want really. If you want to just get your words out there, do it. You know, but you've got to remember that not everyone is self-publishing does very well, but it's the same in traditional publishing. Just because you've got

penguin behind you, you can still sell 500 copies of a book. It doesn't mean you're going to sell a million. So yeah, for every JK Rowling there's, you know, 500 that are nowhere near that. And obviously you do earn more as well because, you know, for a paperback through my publisher, I'll get 55 pence per paperback and kind of a pound for an ebook. So if you're self publishing as well, your percentage is, you can put a book out for

£2.99 and earn £2 of that, you know? So I see the appeal and I do know people who are doing hybrid. They will have a self-publishing arm and they'll be traditionally published as well because that's real and that can earn them money.

I know what mean. I like the idea of doing like something, a blog or something where you can just do it and publish it and practice day after day, but then having that, you know, the journal or the something. The thing that will give you that, as you said, the kudos, the accreditation, which, like said, it is hard to get into, but it's sort of like once you've got into there, you must be good.

Well that's it, like, I mean, you know Penguin because they're the biggest publisher in the world, but as a writer I know the six big ones, the six big publishers that everyone wants because you think they're gonna make you big or whatever. For the normal person they don't know who the publishers are, it means nothing. Bust it!

Speaker 2 (11:28.908)
into your writing then. I know you said that you write at night. I'm interested in how people structure it. So is it you can give yourself two hours or is it just some days you don't feel like writing and so you go with it?

I always feel like writing. I feel like it now. So I never get blocked. I've never been blocked. I've always got something on the go, often a couple of things. So at night I'll just go until I'm too tired. And then in the day, again, just until I have to do something else. I'm in a very fortunate position that I'm doing the job that I love. And I think that is a massive gift.

And I don't live beyond my means. So I'm never chasing the next check. I'm better because I'm doing what I want to do. That is such a powerful thing. And I know that people say, you know, you've got to go for your dream, never give up and all of that. And I just, don't really like that message because one, not everyone is good enough to achieve their dream. I think we should, but often the people who are saying that are the people who have

got millions in the bank and of course they can say it. So it's a difficult message. I get it. We should try to do the things we want to do. And I think most people are hardwired to do the things they most want to do. I know that working in fitness, people will say, I really want to lose weight or whatever. And then they come to you and they haven't lost any weight. It's not what they really, really want to do. Cause we always do the things that we want to do the most. And for me, I want to write the most, which is why I write

all the time, every single day, as much as I can. And I feel very fortunate that I can do that.

Speaker 2 (13:15.192)
think you're actually right. If you want to be a JK Rowling, that probably won't happen, the chances are. But if you just like writing, you could do that now. You don't need to be a full-time writer. You could just have a part-time job, like you said, live within your means and writing, get some money for that on the side or do various like a portfolio career style. You could do whatever you wanted to. You just have to be realistic in what you can do and make sure everything's balanced. So I think you're very right on that. That's a good message. So from all those different things that you do,

I like a portfolio career too. I do different things. And for each strand, I'm learning something different which contributes to the whole. Do you learn different things from the podcast to the writing to the fitness business?

Yeah, I think you have to keep learning all the time. mean, I've just started doing an AI course. I think it's, everyone's very scared of it. Like, it's going to take our jobs. It's going to take over the world. And actually it is part of our world already. You just don't realize. And it's just a tool to help us. And if you use it in the right way, it's amazing. And I'm kind of learning that. And I think the thing I think I've learned from all the different things I do is...

The authenticity is key. When I was first published, I was published by Random House, who are Penguin Random House. I was just so grateful for everything. I was like, my God, I'm living my dream. Whatever they said or suggested, I did. And I was on my social media at the time. It wasn't as big as it is now, but I was asked to kind of pull back a bit on that. I was putting too much of my real self across and I kind of thought that was the idea.

And so I did, I really pulled back and I changed the things I was putting out and it wasn't really me and people weren't engaging with it. And so when that ended, I went to a different publisher. was like, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to be who I am. And lo and behold, I've got this real kind of cult following now because I was myself. And I think with the fitness business as well, you have to find out what you are, what you're offering and be that.

Speaker 1 (15:28.458)
Myself and my partner, we're both vegan and we, kind of shied away from telling people that in the fitness thing, because a lot of vegans are quite preachy about that. And, and I think it can put people off and they're like, we want to work out, we want to help with our nutrition, but we don't want to be vegan. So we're not telling you to be vegan. It's just what we do. We shied away from that. And I think when I started out as well, I was doing this workout called insanity, which was just the hardest workout.

real intense, just leave everything on the floor workout. And it was great. And I was lean and fit and had all the bumps in all the right places. And now I'm older. We've kind of changed it. And we're like, all of our clients are over 40. Some are in their fifties. Let's just focus on that and let's just be who we are. We are a couple of vegan trainers and we've got a busy life with all of our kids and

We still manage to keep fit, but now it's more important to just keep moving because you know, my back hurts more than it did when I was 30. And I think you have to be authentic about that and say, this is who we are. And you'll always find your audience because there are going to be people who are exactly like that. And there's room for the six pack AB guys who are flexing in front of you on tick tock. And there's room for.

people who focus on 40 plus men and women like us. So I think the biggest thing is authenticity.

I'm so glad you mentioned your audiences there because that's something else I want to ask you about. the podcast and then with the writing, as we said, and the fitness business, they must be different audiences and how well do you know them? Clearly the fitness business that's in Congenerator, you tend to know your audience. They're on Facebook, it's over 40s, probably what exercises they like. How defined is it or how much do you pay attention to developing the audience for each category, say? Or is it just a natural thing as you go along?

Speaker 1 (17:33.912)
with the fitness thing is much easier because again we're face to face with them a lot so we know who they are we know exactly who we're dealing with so we can target the right people the writing it's a lot more difficult I do see a lot of the same faces if I do an event so I kind of know but my publisher always thought that I was kind of getting like young angry men or you know that kind of reader or you know women read more books anyway but

We did an event and it turns out that I really appeal to an older demographic because the things I write about, all the social commentary, they like it because it's the things they're thinking and they're like, you're not afraid to say it. And we had no idea that I was so popular with the elderly, you know. Again, I don't ever think about it with the writing. I know that with the podcast, I just drag the people that read my books. So I knew I had.

a bunch of people that were going to listen to it because they read my books. But I do quite like on the podcast, I can see the countries that listen to it. And it's really interesting because I've got a group in Kenya, can they listen to every single episode? And that's kind of growing my, like I don't have any books published there. I've been translating to a few languages and I have books around the world, but yeah, I love that. I think with the writing, if you're traditionally published,

It's the publisher's job to worry about your audience on the fitness side of things. It's very easy to know because they're there.

Do you have any advice for business owners? know you're in the fitness industry. Do you see business owners suffering with anything in particular?

Speaker 1 (19:19.394)
Yeah. I mean, the fitness business has really changed in the last five, six years. Definitely since COVID, because so many didn't make it. We were very quick to transition to online and we kind of kept everyone. Social media is just the biggest impact because lots of people put up free workouts online. I don't think you should give anything away for free. I had a conversation with.

my partner about this and she was like, maybe we should give away a free months membership. And I was like, no, it never works because you're, you're devaluing your yourself, your company and what you do. I, but you don't need to pay to come to our online classes because there's a million videos out there for nothing. And that's really tough. But what you do get with us is we're actually there talking to you and we can see if you're doing something wrong.

You've got to find your USP or whatever. I don't know. I'd find it very hard to advise someone on what to do. I think you just need to find who you are and what you want to offer and just go fully at it. You have to completely commit to that. And I think that's the best way. I mean, I'm so torn between all the things I do that sometimes I feel like I'm not doing any of them well. And I think

There's that, you you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want. And I think pick something and just do it well. Do that one thing well. If you're a successful actor and suddenly you have a vodka business or you own a football team as well or whatever. And it's like, that is a lot of different things to do. And yes, I wish I could just write. I wish I could, but I have to supplement a little with the fitness, but most of it is now with my partner. I'd love her.

to completely take that because I'd love her to just fully focus on it as well. I think we'd both do better but there's risk, there's always risk isn't there and you have to calculate whether it's worth it or not.

Speaker 2 (21:31.022)
Also when you're multi-passionate, there are lots of things that you like to do and really enjoy to do. So focus in and thinking you're going to spend all your time on X, Y or Z. So it's knowing that fine, you divide your attention, it will take longer, but then you'll have a balance that you're actually probably enjoying because you're doing something different all the time and you're just accepting whatever you do is going to take longer.

Speaker 2 (22:33.57)
There does have to be something where you are spending time and it takes time and effort to do and develop something, but then you're learning as you go along how to improve and streamline things. I think you're right. Patience is the one thing that I think people are really suffering from nowadays. In a world when you can get anything instantly, people have lost that time of developing something. And I think actually that could be a bit of a strength for people that are patient and they do take the time and they do build and they do learn and develop over time. That is their superpower.

because they will far outpace anyone who won't get past the set forth at the start, initial painful phase of you doing something and it probably won't be great initially because you need to develop the skills which will take time.

Speaker 2 (23:41.826)
What problems or challenges have you faced in any of the businesses you do? Is it communicating your USP or what is your USP? It's a deceptively easy question to ask, but so hard to actually pin down. So the first part is, what do you think your USP is? Because I think you've probably got something that goes across all three strands. So what's your USP? And then the second part is what...

problems have you faced, whether that is communicating with an audience or changing because you work in such a quick-paced industry for the fitness side at least?

Speaker 2 (26:38.784)
It frustrates me when people put things out that look deceptively simple and say, yeah, you can get a six pack with five minutes a day. I'm all for streamlining things and making things as easy as possible, but don't mistake how much time and effort it takes in order to do something or think, just by doing something in five minutes a day, can be like a JK Rowling because you're doing five minutes of writing a day. It does take time and effort and practice and failing in order to get somewhere.

Speaker 2 (28:04.654)
was going say, what message would you like to our audiences with? I think that has been quite a key, but let's do it again.

Speaker 2 (28:36.91)
Well, we're recording this towards the end of 2025, so whenever you're listening to this in the future, it doesn't have to be next year, it could be next month. So start a new you and yeah, focused.

Speaker 2 (28:50.126)
Yeah, now, now is a good time to, well, thank you so much for time. This has been brilliant. Thank you.